[Dixielandjazz] Forrie Cairns and Cy (was Wally Fawkes Birthday)
Steve Voce
stevevoce at virginmedia.com
Tue Jun 27 04:19:42 EDT 2017
Marek has left my name at the end of all /his / below as though I'm
commenting on my own thoughts. Where my name is it should be Maryk's.
The Merseysippi, all pals of mine because we all lived alongside each
other in Liverpool, came together in 1949, a long time before 'Trad'.
They started up The Cavern while the Beatles were presumably still at
school. The Merseysippi had many opportunities when Trad came to make
money as a 'national' band, but always refused on the grounds of musical
integrity. All dead now, they would have hated to be accused of playing
'Trad. The music they played came from sources as diverse as Louis, Lu
Watters, Benny Goodman and Shorty Rogers. Alex Welsh and Freddy Randall
would also spin in their graves to hear their Condon-style music
described as 'Trad'. In the same vein, I don't like the idea of anyone
mistakenly thinking that I am Marek!
Steve Voce
On 26/06/2017 21:11, Marek Boym wrote:
>
> On 26 June 2017 at 17:25, Steve Voce <stevevoce at virginmedia.com
> <mailto:stevevoce at virginmedia.com>> wrote:
>
> 'Trad' was the commercial boom that came during the '50s when you
> didn't need much talent to get rich.
>
> I know what YOU mean by "trad." And British jazz critics of the day.
> At its worst, it sounded like banjo with instrumental accompaniment.
> But there were some fine bands, like your Merseys, or the Alan
> Elsdon's band I repeatedly heard at the Jazzshows Jazz Club band in
> 1964. And many many others, But to the general public, even bands
> like Welsh's and Randall's were "trad." Even a younger musician like
> Ken refers to them that way.
> To confuse the issue, the term is now used in the States as well,
> referring to the banjo and tuba bands, while the British ones usually
> had a double bass. Nit-picking and pigeonholing is not taking us anywhere,
>
> It was the age of 'gimmicks' - bowler hats etc.
>
>
> Bowler hats and ridiculous waistcoats was what Acker's band wore, I
> heard many with no uniform. The "gimmick" came at a later stage - in
> Poland his band had "normal" attire (if I remember properly - it was
> over 60 years ago - he wore a black shirt, while the others wore white).
>
> Chris Barber's1949 band was not trad and was in fact one of his
> most interesting. It had Ben Cohen on cornet (there were two
> cornets) and a good clarinet player).
>
>
> The clarinet player in that band was Alex Revell.
>
> Chris didn't compromise, and although parallel to it, didn't play
> 'trad'.
>
>
> Be it as it may, he was considered one of the great "Three B's of
> trad, as reflected by several albums with that banner.
>
> Nor did Humph, of course. After Humph, Past Halcox was the
> outstanding trumpeter in that field. Chris was always an
> accomplished musician, while the 'trad' fellows tended to learn
> on the job, as far as they were able to.
>
>
> Perhaps. But Elsdon went on to become one of the major figures of
> British jazz, as did others. Acker used the ridiculous 18th century
> outfit to the end, which did not detract from his music.
> Cheers
>
> Steve Voce
>
>
> On 26/06/2017 14:37, Marek Boym wrote:
>> Forrie Cairns is not sufficiently well known I have a Clyde
>> Valley CD, but nevertheless have no real opinion on Cairns.
>> As to Steve's comment re. "Trad" - aren't we pigeonholing too
>> much? When did "Trad" start? Was the 1949 Barber trad (the name
>> had not yet been used)? And George Webb?
>> Cheers
>>
>> On 26 June 2017 at 01:25, Ken Mathieson
>> <ken at kenmath.free-online.co.uk
>> <mailto:ken at kenmath.free-online.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>> I'm not taking sides in the Cy Laurie stand-off, nor
>> indulging in lists pointless or otherwise, but the absence of
>> one name from this thread has been conspicuous: Forrie
>> Cairns. He's retired from playing now, but still to the fore
>> in Edinburgh, having spent most of his career in London and
>> Zurich. His pro career involved playing with the Clyde Valley
>> Stompers before leading his own Clansmen until trad jazz
>> slipped off the radar of most of the British public. He had a
>> spell of free-lancing around London before moving to
>> Switzerland, where he was based for many years working with
>> Bob Wallis as well as the Picadilly Six. He returned to
>> Scotland about 20 years ago, settling in Edinburgh and still
>> playing as forcefully and inventively as ever until his
>> retirement for health reasons recently.
>>
>> Forrie was recognised by Sandy Brown in The McJazz
>> Manuscripts as giving "...Sandy cause for concern on the
>> occasions they occupied the same bandstand." And "...Forrie
>> made him more uncomfortable than anyone except Tony Coe." And
>> "...given the freewheeling , uncommitted atmosphere of
>> Sandy's band Forrie could have been unbeatable: he was never
>> provided that climate, and was consequently under-rated."
>> Sandy described Forrie's playing as being a "fierce amalgam
>> of a number of New Orleans originals, notably Ed Hall..."
>> There were certainly traces of Ed Hall in his sound, but his
>> improvisations always struck me as unlike anyone else's due
>> to their unpredictability. He was always a delight to play
>> with as ideas just bubbled out of him and his rhythmic
>> attack, swing and intensity were often fierce, but he could
>> play with great sensitivity when the material called for it.
>>
>> It's a great pity that he's not better represented on
>> recordings, but you can catch him here along with some other
>> fine local players on the Scottish scene:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5PVwxmtJ5s
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5PVwxmtJ5s>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ken
>>
>> ---
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