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<p>Marek has left my name at the end of all <i>his </i> below as
though I'm commenting on my own thoughts. Where my name is it
should be Maryk's.</p>
<p>The Merseysippi, all pals of mine because we all lived alongside
each other in Liverpool, came together in 1949, a long time before
'Trad'. They started up The Cavern while the Beatles were
presumably still at school. The Merseysippi had many opportunities
when Trad came to make money as a 'national' band, but always
refused on the grounds of musical integrity. All dead now, they
would have hated to be accused of playing 'Trad. The music they
played came from sources as diverse as Louis, Lu Watters, Benny
Goodman and Shorty Rogers. Alex Welsh and Freddy Randall would
also spin in their graves to hear their Condon-style music
described as 'Trad'. In the same vein, I don't like the idea of
anyone mistakenly thinking that I am Marek! <br>
</p>
<p>Steve Voce<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 26/06/2017 21:11, Marek Boym wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CABGvO8BBm1wnf-iEDYiqn3PH43UNJjFuYU92=f_LiV1fS9=8eQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On 26 June 2017 at 17:25, Steve Voce
<span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:stevevoce@virginmedia.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">stevevoce@virginmedia.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>'Trad' was the commercial boom that came during the
'50s when you didn't need much talent to get rich.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>I know what YOU mean by "trad." And British jazz
critics of the day. At its worst, it sounded like banjo
with instrumental accompaniment. But there were some fine
bands, like your Merseys, or the Alan Elsdon's band I
repeatedly heard at the Jazzshows Jazz Club band in 1964.
And many many others, But to the general public, even
bands like Welsh's and Randall's were "trad." Even a
younger musician like Ken refers to them that way.<br>
</div>
<div>To confuse the issue, the term is now used in the
States as well, referring to the banjo and tuba bands,
while the British ones usually had a double bass.
Nit-picking and pigeonholing is not taking us anywhere,<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<p> It was the age of 'gimmicks' - bowler hats etc.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Bowler hats and ridiculous waistcoats was what Acker's
band wore, I heard many with no uniform. The "gimmick"
came at a later stage - in Poland his band had "normal"
attire (if I remember properly - it was over 60 years ago
- he wore a black shirt, while the others wore white).<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<p>Chris Barber's1949 band was not trad and was in fact
one of his most interesting. It had Ben Cohen on
cornet (there were two cornets) and a good clarinet
player). </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
The clarinet player in that band was Alex Revell.<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<p>Chris didn't compromise, and although parallel to it,
didn't play 'trad'. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Be it as it may, he was considered one of the great
"Three B's of trad, as reflected by several albums with
that banner.<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<p>Nor did Humph, of course. After Humph, Past Halcox
was the outstanding trumpeter in that field. Chris was
always an accomplished musician, while the 'trad'
fellows tended to learn on the job, as far as they
were able to.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Perhaps. But Elsdon went on to become one of the major
figures of British jazz, as did others. Acker used the
ridiculous 18th century outfit to the end, which did not
detract from his music. <br>
</div>
<div>Cheers<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
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<p>Steve Voce<br>
</p>
<div>
<div class="gmail-h5"> <br>
<div
class="gmail-m_8718423528794162330moz-cite-prefix">On
26/06/2017 14:37, Marek Boym wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Forrie Cairns is not sufficiently well
known I have a Clyde Valley CD, but
nevertheless have no real opinion on Cairns.<br>
</div>
As to Steve's comment re. "Trad" - aren't we
pigeonholing too much? When did "Trad"
start? Was the 1949 Barber trad (the name had
not yet been used)? And George Webb?<br>
</div>
Cheers<br>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 26 June 2017
at 01:25, Ken Mathieson <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:ken@kenmath.free-online.co.uk"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ken@kenmath.free-online.co.uk</a><wbr>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi
All,<br>
I'm not taking sides in the Cy
Laurie stand-off, nor indulging in
lists pointless or otherwise, but
the absence of one name from this
thread has been conspicuous: Forrie
Cairns. He's retired from playing
now, but still to the fore in
Edinburgh, having spent most of his
career in London and Zurich. His pro
career involved playing with the
Clyde Valley Stompers before leading
his own Clansmen until trad jazz
slipped off the radar of most of the
British public. He had a spell of
free-lancing around London before
moving to Switzerland, where he was
based for many years working with
Bob Wallis as well as the Picadilly
Six. He returned to Scotland about
20 years ago, settling in Edinburgh
and still playing as forcefully and
inventively as ever until his
retirement for health reasons
recently.<br>
<br>
Forrie was recognised by Sandy Brown
in The McJazz Manuscripts as giving
"...Sandy cause for concern on the
occasions they occupied the same
bandstand." And "...Forrie made him
more uncomfortable than anyone
except Tony Coe." And "...given the
freewheeling , uncommitted
atmosphere of Sandy's band Forrie
could have been unbeatable: he was
never provided that climate, and was
consequently under-rated." Sandy
described Forrie's playing as being
a "fierce amalgam of a number of New
Orleans originals, notably Ed
Hall..." There were certainly traces
of Ed Hall in his sound, but his
improvisations always struck me as
unlike anyone else's due to their
unpredictability. He was always a
delight to play with as ideas just
bubbled out of him and his rhythmic
attack, swing and intensity were
often fierce, but he could play with
great sensitivity when the material
called for it.<br>
<br>
It's a great pity that he's not
better represented on recordings,
but you can catch him here along
with some other fine local players
on the Scottish scene:<br>
<br>
<a
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5PVwxmtJ5s"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.youtube.com/watch?<wbr>v=-5PVwxmtJ5s</a><br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Ken<br>
<br>
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