[Dixielandjazz] Dixielandjazz Digest, Vol 182, Issue 2

Daniel Barrett danpbarrett at hotmail.com
Fri Feb 2 17:33:52 EST 2018 

Hello, all--


I don't chime in often, but i very much enjoy reading the variety of posts here, from all over the world! Very informative, and educational!


Regarding "diminished chords" per se, I don't see how either Bunk or George Lewis could have been "opposed" to them, or their use.  I suspect the passage about them to which Mr. Gates alludes must have been taken out of context when he saw it or heard about it.


Anyway, the famous--even iconic--introduction to Dippermouth Blues--recorded first by King Oliver's Creole Jazz Band (and later by his Dixie Syncopators as Sugar Foot Stomp) is two full bars of a diminished chord.  I also recall Climax Rag employs a diminished arpeggio in its first strain.


Now that I'm really thinking about it, I recall that one of my all-time favorite recordings, Tip Easy Blues by the Jones-Collins Astoria Hot Eight--contains yet another diminished arpeggio, played by trumpeter Lee Collins at the end of his beautiful solo.


So, it would seem that diminished chords abound in traditional jazz! (What will they think of next?)


Keep Calm, and Keep Swinging,


--Dan Barrett.

________________________________
From: dixielandjazz-request at ml.islandnet.com <dixielandjazz-request at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Friday, February 2, 2018 9:00 AM
To: Dan Barrett
Subject: Dixielandjazz Digest, Vol 182, Issue 2

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Diminished chord question (Louis Lince)
   2. Re: Diminished chord question (Bert)
   3. Re: Diminished chord question (Aaron)
   4. Batchelors (Marek Boym)
   5. Diminished chords of "Squeeze Me" (Ken Gates)


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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 17:14:00 -0000
From: "Louis Lince" <louis.lince at pobroadband.co.uk>
To: "Ken Gates" <kwg915 at gmail.com>
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Diminished chord question
Message-ID: <83934F9A33994FC7BAF5EE7BB0226D54 at AdventUserPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Ken,

The second theme of "Blame it on the Blues" is based on a diminished run

best

Louis
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Ken Gates
  To: louis.lince at pobroadband.co.uk
  Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
  Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2018 4:03 PM
  Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Diminished chord question


  Does anyone have an example of a jazz tune constructed upon a series of diminished 7 chords?


  Did the very early jazz musicians use diminished 7 chords in their play?


  I do remember reading that Bunk Johnson and George Lewis had difference of opinion
  about diminished chords.  Bunk for, George opposed.


  Ken Gates










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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 17:30:10 +0000
From: Bert <mister_bertje at hotmail.com>
To: "dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Diminished chord question
Message-ID:
        <AM5PR0902MB2196C9770032D92B35F9E7EC8AFA0 at AM5PR0902MB2196.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


Hello Ken,

China Boy , copyrighted in 1922 has plain use of the diminished chord.
A series of diminished chords, you will find in Airmail Special, the bridge. Of course that is not very early jazz, but it is a wellknown example.

Kind regards,

Bert


________________________________
From: Ken Gates <kwg915 at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2018 4:03 PM
To: Bert Brandsma
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Diminished chord question

Does anyone have an example of a jazz tune constructed upon a series of diminished 7 chords?

Did the very early jazz musicians use diminished 7 chords in their play?

I do remember reading that Bunk Johnson and George Lewis had difference of opinion
about diminished chords.  Bunk for, George opposed.

Ken Gates




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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 15:15:13 -0500
From: Aaron <go4baroquemusic at aol.com>
To: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Diminished chord question
Message-ID: <161530246e3-1d4f-3d7e at webjas-vab055.srv.aolmail.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"


Can't answer the original question about very early jazz musicians, but I love dim7 chords so I'll take a moment to talk about them. ;-)

Very common in 1920s and 30s music -- I'd say more so in tunes borrowed from Tin Pan Alley and show/popular music than original jazz tunes.

Usage is most often chromatic movement, often toward or away from a dom7 chord. A dim7 chord is identical to the dom7 chord a half step lower, except for the root. For instance, the upper 3 notes of a cdim7 chord are the same as a C#7 chord.

It also accommodates chromatic movement of the melody or "blue notes" when the melody sits on the 3rd or 5th of a chord.

An interesting side note: 4-stringed instruments (tenor/plec banjo, uke, mando, etc.), typically play dim7 chords in place of b9 (dominant flat nine) chords, but a 3rd up. The reason why: for most fretted strings, you usually modify a dom7 chord to create upper extensions. Easiest way for a b9 or 9 chord is to move the root up because that's much easier in most cases (shape-wise) than throwing away the 5th.

So for b9, you shift the root up a 1/2 step. So if you extend a C7 to a C7b9, that changes the C7
From: C  E  G  Bb
To: Db  E  G  Bb (inverted, E  G  Bb  Db)

Or in other words, your C7 becomes an Edim7 chord. On a piano, it's inverted -- but on a 4-string fretted instrument, you can't worry much about inversions since you're constrained by string order.


Aaron Minnick




-----Original Message-----
From: Louis Lince <louis.lince at pobroadband.co.uk>
To: Aaron Minnick <go4baroquemusic at aol.com>
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 1, 2018 1:35 pm
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Diminished chord question


?
Hi Ken,

The second theme of "Blame it on the Blues" is based on a diminished run

best

Louis

----- Original Message -----

From:   Ken Gates

To: louis.lince at pobroadband.co.uk

Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List

Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2018 4:03   PM

Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Diminished chord   question





Does anyone   have an example of a jazz tune constructed upon a series of diminished 7   chords?




Did the very   early jazz musicians use diminished 7 chords in their play?




I do remember   reading that Bunk Johnson and George Lewis had difference of opinion

about   diminished chords.  Bunk for, George opposed.




Ken   Gates


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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 16:13:39 +0200
From: Marek Boym <marekboym at gmail.com>
To: Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Batchelors
Message-ID:
        <CABGvO8Brp9bVOtwwOiADwvTkVnn-75ikOGZwjL-0cbqT7B2bzA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

No, not a typo - a band name: The Batchelors of Jazz.  I wonder how many
listmates remember it.  At least one should, as he was the bands regular
drummer back in 1984, when I saw it at the Edinburgh Jazz Festival.
Cheers!

<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avast.com%2Fsig-email%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dlink%26utm_campaign%3Dsig-email%26utm_content%3Dwebmail&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce1a63b9bf3d94164c7e808d56a650290%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636531904419514506&sdata=BRWp%2F2aB6WIqeDg7ii9XkYmZFdPnixChercVwJaersk%3D&reserved=0>
???
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 08:33:52 -0800
From: Ken Gates <kwg915 at gmail.com>
To: DJML <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>, Bob Ringwald
        <rsr at ringwald.com>
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Diminished chords of "Squeeze Me"
Message-ID:
        <CAF-cBBK-Z5O-ncA=_yAL_eSK=y47suqESKj8Uwuk8gfrWiyufg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Bob Ringwald told us to---------

 Listen to the 13th and 14th measure of "Squeeze Me."  It is a descending
series of diminished chords.
------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------
Thanks to Bob Ringwald.  Looking at my copy of chords in the American Music
Caravan compact book
of chords,  they show  those two measures as  ten consecutive dim7 chords
starting with Bdim7 going
down to Ddim7.  Then the two ending measures (15th and 16th) of the 16 bar
chorus in the key of F
are a conventional  G7///  C7/F/.

Wow----ten consecutive dim7 chords!!!!!!

Ken Gates
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