[Dixielandjazz] Buddy Bolden, was Armstrong-Eldridge

[Steve Voce]

You can hear Louis in every chorus Red played. Every trumpet player 
heard Louis from the Oliver records and before and after and they were 
all (maybe not so much Bix and Bunk), including Red and King Joe, vastly 
influenced. Red was drenched in Louis's work, and spoke of him all the 
time (he stayed for weeks at the Manchester Sports Guild and made other 
visits there. During this time many of us had frequent long 
conversations with him). You can hear Louis in every solo Red played. 
Jabbo's playing was also permeated through and through with Louis. It's 
only people who've listened to too much Charlie Parker and Von Freeman 
that can't hear this.

Steve V


On 13/04/2017 20:51, Marek Boym wrote:
> Red Allen was born in 1908, and started playing in New Orleans.  He 
> started playing there and was a pro by 1924, before he had the chance 
> to be influenced by Armstrong.  The he played with King Oliver, after 
> Armstrong had left.  He might have assimilated some of Armstrong's 
> influence, but his early recorded solos sound quite different.  Also 
> when he was the only trumpet player allowed to solo with Armstrong's band.
> Jabbo Smith, too, was born in 1908, and started playing at age 10.  He 
> went pro at 16, i.e. - in 1924.  His playing on the 1929 Brunswicks 
> sounds quite different from Armstrong's.  Armstrong's influence?  
> Probably, albeit not certainly direct (too late to ask anybody).
> As to Bix, he claimed to have learnt playing from, and being 
> influenced by, Nick LaRocca with the Original Dixieland Jazz Band.
> There certainly was cross-influence - every good musician absorbed 
> something of the other musicians' playing.
> The "linear development" theory has a lot of flaws.  Adopting it would 
> lead to the conclusion that the "dark ages" were more advanced than 
> the classic culture.
> Chhers
>
>
> On 13 April 2017 at 21:06, Charles Suhor <csuhor at zebra.net 
> <mailto:csuhor at zebra.net>> wrote:
>
>     Steve, your perspective is widely accepted (because it’s sound).
>     It's not a matter of Jabbo or Red Allen “copying” Louis but being
>     influenced in important, noticeable ways, yet but also being
>     highly individualized. As As Marek says, they don’t “sound alike.”
>     But certainly they derived much from Louis’ playing. Tracking this
>     isn’t an exact science, like genealogy—a metaphor--but it’s a
>     legitimate and interesting part of how we can think and talk about
>     jazz. And yes, Bix was a true original with his own musical
>     “progeny”—another metaphor. But as Wittgenstein said, all language
>     is a matter of messing about creatively with metaphors. It’s a
>     good game.
>
>     Charlie
>
>
>>     On Apr 13, 2017, at 11:21 AM, Steve Voce
>>     <stevevoce at virginmedia.com <mailto:stevevoce at virginmedia.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Is there anyone else who doesn't think that Henry Red and Jabbo
>>     derived their styles totally from Louis's? Bix and a few of his
>>     followers were the only contemporaries who didn't owe Louis a
>>     substantial debt.
>>
>>     Steve V
>>
>>
>>     7 16:05, Marek Boym wrote:
>>>     The "genealogical" theory is nonsense.
>>>     I query bpth Jabbo Smith's and Red Allens being "Armstrong
>>>     copyists." Actually both sound quite different.
>>>     And how does Bix fit in?
>>>     Cheers
>     \
>
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