[Dixielandjazz] Buddy Bolden, was Armstrong-Eldridge

[Marek Boym]

Red Allen was born in 1908, and started playing in New Orleans.  He started
playing there and was a pro by 1924, before he had the chance to be
influenced by Armstrong.  The he played with King Oliver, after Armstrong
had left.  He might have assimilated some of Armstrong's influence, but his
early recorded solos sound quite different.  Also when he was the only
trumpet player allowed to solo with Armstrong's band.
Jabbo Smith, too, was born in 1908, and started playing at age 10.  He went
pro at 16, i.e. - in 1924.  His playing on the 1929 Brunswicks sounds quite
different from Armstrong's.  Armstrong's influence?  Probably, albeit not
certainly direct (too late to ask anybody).
As to Bix, he claimed to have learnt playing from, and being influenced by,
Nick LaRocca with the Original Dixieland Jazz Band.
There certainly was cross-influence - every good musician absorbed
something of the other musicians' playing.
The "linear development" theory has a lot of flaws.  Adopting it would lead
to the conclusion that the "dark ages" were more advanced than the classic
culture.
Chhers


On 13 April 2017 at 21:06, Charles Suhor <csuhor at zebra.net> wrote:

> Steve, your perspective is widely accepted (because it’s sound). It's not
> a matter of Jabbo or Red Allen “copying” Louis but being influenced in
> important, noticeable ways, yet but also being highly individualized. As As
> Marek says, they don’t “sound alike.” But certainly they derived much from
> Louis’ playing. Tracking this isn’t an exact science, like genealogy—a
> metaphor--but it’s a legitimate and interesting part of how we can think
> and talk about jazz. And yes, Bix was a true original with his own musical
> “progeny”—another metaphor. But as Wittgenstein said, all language is a
> matter of messing about creatively with metaphors. It’s a good game.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2017, at 11:21 AM, Steve Voce <stevevoce at virginmedia.com>
> wrote:
>
> Is there anyone else who doesn't think that Henry Red and Jabbo derived
> their styles totally from Louis's? Bix and a few of his followers were the
> only contemporaries who didn't owe Louis a substantial debt.
>
> Steve V
>
> 7 16:05, Marek Boym wrote:
>
> The "genealogical" theory is nonsense.
> I query bpth Jabbo Smith's and Red Allens being "Armstrong copyists."
> Actually both sound quite different.
> And how does Bix fit in?
> Cheers
>
> \
>
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