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<p>You can hear Louis in every chorus Red played. Every trumpet
player heard Louis from the Oliver records and before and after
and they were all (maybe not so much Bix and Bunk), including Red
and King Joe, vastly influenced. Red was drenched in Louis's work,
and spoke of him all the time (he stayed for weeks at the
Manchester Sports Guild and made other visits there. During this
time many of us had frequent long conversations with him). You can
hear Louis in every solo Red played. Jabbo's playing was also
permeated through and through with Louis. It's only people who've
listened to too much Charlie Parker and Von Freeman that can't
hear this.</p>
<p>Steve V<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13/04/2017 20:51, Marek Boym wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CABGvO8BC6hPbmidTzch6Qg10cFcriUXxp_fqVEsbREY=bam9jA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Red Allen was born in 1908, and started playing in
New Orleans. He started playing there and was a pro by
1924, before he had the chance to be influenced by
Armstrong. The he played with King Oliver, after
Armstrong had left. He might have assimilated some of
Armstrong's influence, but his early recorded solos
sound quite different. Also when he was the only
trumpet player allowed to solo with Armstrong's band.<br>
</div>
Jabbo Smith, too, was born in 1908, and started playing at
age 10. He went pro at 16, i.e. - in 1924. His playing
on the 1929 Brunswicks sounds quite different from
Armstrong's. Armstrong's influence? Probably, albeit not
certainly direct (too late to ask anybody).<br>
</div>
As to Bix, he claimed to have learnt playing from, and being
influenced by, Nick LaRocca with the Original Dixieland Jazz
Band.<br>
</div>
<div>There certainly was cross-influence - every good musician
absorbed something of the other musicians' playing.<br>
</div>
The "linear development" theory has a lot of flaws. Adopting
it would lead to the conclusion that the "dark ages" were more
advanced than the classic culture.<br>
</div>
Chhers<br>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 13 April 2017 at 21:06, Charles
Suhor <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:csuhor@zebra.net" target="_blank">csuhor@zebra.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Steve, your perspective is
widely accepted (because it’s sound). It's not a matter of
Jabbo or Red Allen “copying” Louis but being influenced in
important, noticeable ways, yet but also being highly
individualized. As As Marek says, they don’t “sound
alike.” But certainly they derived much from Louis’
playing. Tracking this isn’t an exact science, like
genealogy—a metaphor--but it’s a legitimate and
interesting part of how we can think and talk about jazz.
And yes, Bix was a true original with his own musical
“progeny”—another metaphor. But as Wittgenstein said, all
language is a matter of messing about creatively with
metaphors. It’s a good game.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Charlie<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite"><span class="">
<div>On Apr 13, 2017, at 11:21 AM, Steve Voce
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stevevoce@virginmedia.com"
target="_blank">stevevoce@virginmedia.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
</span>
<div>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><span
class="">
<p>Is there anyone else who doesn't think
that Henry Red and Jabbo derived their
styles totally from Louis's? Bix and a few
of his followers were the only
contemporaries who didn't owe Louis a
substantial debt. </p>
</span>
<p>Steve V</p>
<span class="">
<div><br>
</div>
7 16:05, Marek Boym wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div>
<div>
<div>The "genealogical" theory is
nonsense.<br>
</div>
I query bpth Jabbo Smith's and Red
Allens being "Armstrong copyists."
Actually both sound quite different.<br>
</div>
And how does Bix fit in?<br>
</div>
Cheers<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
\</div>
</div>
</div>
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