[Dixielandjazz] "King Oliver" book

[Marek Boym]

Difficult to tell, but Martin Williams is reliable in general.

On 28 February 2013 16:52, Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym at teledyn.com> wrote:
> Just an aside to the discussion here, I ran across a copy of Kings of Jazz:
> King Joe Oliver by Martin Williams (1961) and I'm just curious where this
> little book sits in the greater scheme of things; I'm finding it a
> fascinating read and its anecdotes seem useful in teaching jazz history to
> young teens .. assuming they are accurate, that is ;)
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 6:38 PM, Marek Boym <marekboym at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Bill,
>> Comparison on You Tube is difficult, as one canno really move back and
>> forth without breaks.  And the no3 sound iften differs considerably
>> from the originakl shellack (I shouldtalk - I have most of thethings
>> on remastered vinyl records!).
>> The case for Oliver sounds convincing - based on listening, I would
>> definitely not have queried the trumpeter's identification as King
>> Oliver.  I have never thought of comparing to Tommy  Dorsey.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> On 28 February 2013 00:50, Bill Haesler <bhaesler at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> > Dear Glen, Bob and other listmates who have a passion for discography
>> > and musical mysteries.
>> > Ah memories.
>> > As a young teenage jazz record collector, I started corresponding with
>> > Walter C Allen, John RT Davies and Laurie Wright, among others.
>> > I still have my numbered copy of Walt's King Oliver manuscript,
>> > circulated for comment.
>> > Also, naturally, a copy of the Laurie Wright Oliver book.
>> > Way back then we fiercely debated the Oliver/Dorsey argument based on
>> > the 78 records, using our ears and very little record company file
>> > information.
>> > And now, thanks to my friend, Christopher Cook, we are at it again.
>> > 8>)
>> > However, regarding Glen Page's comment:
>> >> Clarence Williams himself was positive that it was Oliver on cornet and
>> >> as Clarence put the group together and played on it he should
>> >> know.This was reported in detail in the 1987 book and I am quite happy
>> >> to accept this fact as well as the opinions of the other experts as given by
>> >> Bob Smith.
>> > On page 118 of Laurie's book regarding the 1 May 1929 session by Blind
>> > Willie' Dunn's Gin Bottle Four, (Jet Black Blues and Blue Blood Blues with
>> > composer credit to 'Johnson') he mentions that Clarence Williams was
>> > positive that it was not one of his own dates, and that he was not the
>> > pianist...but agreed with Ralph Venables aural identification of Oliver.
>> > This was later confirmed to Walt Allen by Clarence Williams in March
>> > 1950.
>> > Yet Laurie Wright lists TD as a probable.
>> > And I have always agreed, as it doesn't have the distinctive Oliver
>> > phrasing.
>> > And comparison with the known TD trumpet playing at that time.
>> > Eddie Lang appears to have been the leader contractor for the date. And
>> > was at the time working with the Dorsey Brothers Orchestra.
>> > Comparison with the Clarence Williams & His Novelty Four record (which
>> > does include King Oliver, Eddie Lang and Clarence Williams) made on 23
>> > November 1928 for Okeh is also recommended. The tunes are "In The Bottle
>> > Blues" (Williams-Lang) and "What Do You Want Me To Do?" (Williams-Oliver).
>> > Refer also to pages 265-66 of Tom Lord's 1976 Clarence Williams book for
>> > more comments (not the Tom Lord who publishes The Jazz Discography who now
>> > accepts the Mosaic Venuti-Lang liner notes personnel).
>> > For DJMLERs who have made it this far, the music can be heard on
>> > YouTube.
>> >
>> > Jet Black Blues
>> >    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWI-8FssvtQ
>> >
>> > Blue Blood Blues
>> >    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_zC2PKiE54
>> >
>> > In The Bottle Blues
>> >    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIs_eR735V4
>> >
>> > What Do You Want Me To Do
>> > Still searching for an mp3 or YouTube example of this one for you all.
>> >
>> > Oh, how I miss the Red Hot Jazz site.
>> > But give a gratefully thanks to all those who are uploading so many rare
>> > items to YouTube for our enjoyment.
>> >
>> > I've just checked the Mosaic 'Joe Venuti and Eddie Lang Sessions'
>> > booklet notes.
>> > 'Mog' doesn't add much to the argument other than to say that it sounds
>> > like TD.
>> > Very kind regards,
>> > Bill.
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>> >
>> >
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