[Dixielandjazz] "King Oliver" book

[Gary Lawrence Murphy]

Just an aside to the discussion here, I ran across a copy of Kings of Jazz:
King Joe Oliver by Martin Williams (1961) and I'm just curious where this
little book sits in the greater scheme of things; I'm finding it a
fascinating read and its anecdotes seem useful in teaching jazz history to
young teens .. assuming they are accurate, that is ;)

On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 6:38 PM, Marek Boym <marekboym at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Bill,
> Comparison on You Tube is difficult, as one canno really move back and
> forth without breaks.  And the no3 sound iften differs considerably
> from the originakl shellack (I shouldtalk - I have most of thethings
> on remastered vinyl records!).
> The case for Oliver sounds convincing - based on listening, I would
> definitely not have queried the trumpeter's identification as King
> Oliver.  I have never thought of comparing to Tommy  Dorsey.
>
> Cheers
>
> On 28 February 2013 00:50, Bill Haesler <bhaesler at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> > Dear Glen, Bob and other listmates who have a passion for discography
> and musical mysteries.
> > Ah memories.
> > As a young teenage jazz record collector, I started corresponding with
> Walter C Allen, John RT Davies and Laurie Wright, among others.
> > I still have my numbered copy of Walt's King Oliver manuscript,
> circulated for comment.
> > Also, naturally, a copy of the Laurie Wright Oliver book.
> > Way back then we fiercely debated the Oliver/Dorsey argument based on
> the 78 records, using our ears and very little record company file
> information.
> > And now, thanks to my friend, Christopher Cook, we are at it again.
> > 8>)
> > However, regarding Glen Page's comment:
> >> Clarence Williams himself was positive that it was Oliver on cornet and
> as Clarence put the group together and played on it he should
> >> know.This was reported in detail in the 1987 book and I am quite happy
> to accept this fact as well as the opinions of the other experts as given by
> >> Bob Smith.
> > On page 118 of Laurie's book regarding the 1 May 1929 session by Blind
> Willie' Dunn's Gin Bottle Four, (Jet Black Blues and Blue Blood Blues with
> composer credit to 'Johnson') he mentions that Clarence Williams was
> positive that it was not one of his own dates, and that he was not the
> pianist...but agreed with Ralph Venables aural identification of Oliver.
> > This was later confirmed to Walt Allen by Clarence Williams in March
> 1950.
> > Yet Laurie Wright lists TD as a probable.
> > And I have always agreed, as it doesn't have the distinctive Oliver
> phrasing.
> > And comparison with the known TD trumpet playing at that time.
> > Eddie Lang appears to have been the leader contractor for the date. And
> was at the time working with the Dorsey Brothers Orchestra.
> > Comparison with the Clarence Williams & His Novelty Four record (which
> does include King Oliver, Eddie Lang and Clarence Williams) made on 23
> November 1928 for Okeh is also recommended. The tunes are "In The Bottle
> Blues" (Williams-Lang) and "What Do You Want Me To Do?" (Williams-Oliver).
> > Refer also to pages 265-66 of Tom Lord's 1976 Clarence Williams book for
> more comments (not the Tom Lord who publishes The Jazz Discography who now
> accepts the Mosaic Venuti-Lang liner notes personnel).
> > For DJMLERs who have made it this far, the music can be heard on YouTube.
> >
> > Jet Black Blues
> >    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWI-8FssvtQ
> >
> > Blue Blood Blues
> >    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_zC2PKiE54
> >
> > In The Bottle Blues
> >    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIs_eR735V4
> >
> > What Do You Want Me To Do
> > Still searching for an mp3 or YouTube example of this one for you all.
> >
> > Oh, how I miss the Red Hot Jazz site.
> > But give a gratefully thanks to all those who are uploading so many rare
> items to YouTube for our enjoyment.
> >
> > I've just checked the Mosaic 'Joe Venuti and Eddie Lang Sessions'
> booklet notes.
> > 'Mog' doesn't add much to the argument other than to say that it sounds
> like TD.
> > Very kind regards,
> > Bill.
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