[Dixielandjazz] Marsalis & JRM

[Bill Haesler]

Stephen G Barbone wrote: regarding my comment "Which may explain why he [Mr Marsalis] (and others in his band) use vibratile growls to simulate 'hotness'."
> I need an education here. I always thought growls were an integral part of early jazz.

Dear Steve,
You don't need an "education" regarding this as you have been around, listening to our particular OKOM as long as I have.
And therefore know that the 'growl' is part of it.
The operable word being "part".
Kid Ory's solo "Saints" as transcribed in:
    http://www.trombone.org/articles/library/evojazz1-saints.asp
was indeed taken from the August 1954 Good Time Jazz recording
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmygGOmMZpY
I've had the LP for yonks.
The "growl" notations in various parts of the solo are typical 'revivalist' Ory and are part of the solo. 
Not an unrelated embellishment to denote hotness.
No pandering to the great unwashed required.

> And then there is Gunther Schuller who writes about the Sam Morgan Jazz Band circa 1927: "Notable too are Sam Morgan's simple but hard driving cornet lines in the outside choruses, some with growls and wah-wahs, and the extra ensemble intensity of the last chorus . . ."  (I have listened to this band on you tube but cannot hear any growls)

That reference, from page 76 (of my copy) of his 1968 book "Early Jazz' was in reference to Sam Morgan's Jazz Band and "Bogalousa Strut" (22 October 1927) and has been in my collection as a 78, LP and now CD since the 1940s.
The growls and wah-wah are there and can be felt as a subtle part of the whole. 
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ1EMW18hk8

> BTW, Wild Bill Davison was a bit of a growler too wasn't he? Surely he did not have to simulate hotness.

He was, and he doesn't. It was a natural part of his hot style.
Likewise Ed Hall, Tricky Sam Nanton, Lawrence Brown, Bubber Miley and Trummy Young (á la Ory), et al.
Even Louis... and Kid Ory.
No need for me to check.
You too hear, and know it.
8>)
However, it is some of the new young 'uns who copy the notes in solos, but can't simulate the hotness.
Therefore insert an unrelated growl or inappropriate vibrato to donate hotness.

> What I do not understand is that with all these hot growlers around, and there are many more, why do we pick on Marsalis et al for growling?

Because he is not a "hot growler".
Or wasn't, when that JRM session was recorded in 1999.
Perhaps it's because, to some, he is a prominent "tall poppy".
Surely not?
*>)
Very kind regards,
Bill.