[Dixielandjazz] OFF TOPIC RE: GRAMMIES /PHONIES

[Don Kirkman]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 10:48:08 -0500, you wrote:

Robert Chapman's "American Slang" [1987, abridged from his larger
dictionary] covers both bases; omitting his cited examples, he writes:

"[fr late-18th century British underworld slang fawney from Irish
faiine "ring", referring to a swindle in which the fawney-dropper
drops a cheap ring before the victim, then is persuaded to sell it as
if it were valuable; as the sequence of spellings phoney  and later
phony indicates, the US spelling is probably based on an attested folk
etymology revealing the notion that one's feelings or even identity
could be readily falsified on the telephone."

>Yes Jerry, I've read that one as well as other theories of its origin it's
>very plausible. But as phoney or phony doesn't appear in my OED (shorter)
>but does in some etymological dictionaries with the note origins unknown, I
>wondered if the origins had not surfaced yet being fairly recent but that if
>the "fawney" origin had been correct the origins would have had time to be
>well established. Ultimately - who knows but ain't words fun?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jerry Gordon [mailto:jerrygordon at juno.com] 
>Sent: February-15-12 9:51 AM
>To: 'GIORGI, RIC'
>Cc: 'Dixieland Jazz Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: [Dixielandjazz] GRAMMIES /PHONIES
>
>Not quite, Ric. According to http://www.etymonline.com:  phoney, perhaps an
>alteration of fawney "gilt brass ring used by swindlers." The noun meaning
>"phony person or thing" is attested from 1902.
>
>Jerry Gordon
>Troy, NY
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com
>[mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] On Behalf Of GIORGI, RIC
>Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 5:19 PM
>To: Jerry Gordon
>Cc: 'Dixieland Jazz Mailing List'
>Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] GRAMMIES /PHONIES
>
>Good suggestion but this could get confusing because the origin of the word
>PHONY or PHONIES is that in the early days of a telephone salesperson who
>was too shady to actually show up to sell something to someone but instead
>telephoned them became known as PHONY. I guess that makes telemarketers
>(except for musicians drumming up work)- TELEPHONIES.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Ric Giorgi
>
>
>
>-----
>Ric Giorgi
>Conductor
>Resa's Pieces Strings
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com
>[mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] On Behalf Of Jack Mitchell
>Sent: February-12-12 4:57 PM
>To: Ric Giorgi
>Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
>Subject: [Dixielandjazz] GRAMMIES
>
>I just heard on the news a reference to the Awards night of the American
>recording industry called the GRAMMIES. Of course I've known for yonks of
>this grand affair, also that the name comes from the word GRAMOPHONE. I've
>known for far longer that Americans don't use that word but prefer
>PHONOGRAPH, which we enlightened people use to refer to cylinder machines.
>Anyway, it just struck me that given those facts, surely the awards should
>be known as the PHONIES. Or would that be too literal??
>
>Best wishes
>Jack Mitchell
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-- 
Don Kirkman
donsno2 at charter.net