[Dixielandjazz] Woody Allen - Part Two

[Harry Callaghan]

It is most regrettable that despite Bob Ringwald's proclamation that enough
had been said on the Woody Allen matter, that subscribers insist upon
continuing on the subject, which Bob said should from this point on be
off-list.

I find it totally appalling that Bob is not receiving the respect that he is
due

If I were the one running this list, I assure you that such actions would
render you off it in a hurry.

HC


On 6/5/10, Stephen G Barbone <barbonestreet at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> Money is what drives most "professional" musicians Judie. Most of us follow
> the money. Simple as that. To say we all do it because it's fun is a huge
> myth. Most of us are trying to make a living and will take any gig we can if
> it pays. Those who don't care about the money, do it because it's fun, or
> they love it, are mostly hobby musicians and/or amateurs. Not the
> professionals who have to make a living.
>
> Would I hire a musician who played like Woody, but was not Woody. Of course
> not.
>
> Would I hire Woody? Of course.
>
> We're beating a dead horse here. We both agree about his musicianship. The
> article agrees with us that people go to see HIM first, the music second.
> Woody says he is not a good musician. So what are we arguing about?
>
> Simply that you felt cheated when you went to see him play. My point is
> simple. With all the Woody Allen on you tube, you didn't go there to do your
> homework. You relied instead on a DVD of his European Tour which would have
> been heavily edited to showcase his best moments, much like the any studio
> edits out, or fixes the bad parts of CDs these days. We've discussed this
> type of "editing" many times on the DJML. Most of us (not me) agree that it
> should be done. I feel it tends to misrepresent what the band sounds like in
> real time performance. And that some folks will be pissed when the band
> and/or musician in a live performance doesn't sound like the CD (or DVD)
>
> You have talked with many musicians who played with him in various venues.
> Did they lie to you about his expertise?
>
> You resent his being "paid" to perform. What? HE is the reason all those
> people pay big money to see the band. HE fills up the Club Carlyle. HE
> filled the Opera Houses of Europe on his tour and the concert halls in the
> USA when he tours here. People fall all over themselves to pay big money see
> HIM and the band.
>
> Yet you say; "to go down that low and still be paid to perform, is very
> sad." Where is the logic in that? The man draws a high paying crowd where
> ever he plays and you say it is very sad to go down that low? To me what is
> sad is the bands that play OKOM on the cheap, or for nothing.
>
> Let's face it, even with 35 years of experience listening to OKOM and
> having educated ears, you did not do your homework on Woody Allen. Shame on
> you not him.
>
> For those who wish to get educated about how Woody plays, and what people
> think of him, go to you tube and see him warts and all on MANY live visuals.
> Then read the comments. Some folks like him, some folks hate him which is
> what I said when I posted that very fine Village Voice Article on Norman
> Vickers' jazz chat list. Judie took a paragraph from it, out of context, and
> responded to it on the DJML 2 days before it had been posted here. That
> caused a little confusion and prompted Eddy's request to let people see the
> entire article.
>
> That article speaks for itself.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve Barbone
> www.myspace.com/barbonestreetjazzband
>
>
>
> On Jun 4, 2010, at 10:10 PM, JBruno868 at aol.com wrote:
>
>
>>
>> In a message dated 6/4/2010 5:33:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>> barbonestreet at earthlink.net writes:
>> You built up a false set of expectations about the man, expecting perhaps
>> the second coming of Johnny Dodds.
>>
>> No there you are wrong Steve. My expatiations came from watching his video
>> of his tour in Europe when an old friend of mine was playing trombone with
>> him. Had he played to at least that level I would have been OK but he did
>> not, what 3-5 years later. I forget now when I saw the video. I might also
>> had thought he would have improved since his tour but instead, he was very
>> much worse. If you say any musician can have a bad night, that I agree with
>> but to go down that low and still be paid to perform, is very sad.
>>
>> I have said it was a very sad disappointment. It wasn't a matter so much
>> of the money but I had bought the tickets for my mom for Christmas as her
>> gift and we were both looking forward to the evening. I would have been just
>> as disappointed had I paid $10 to see him and would have walked or rolled in
>> my case out just as quickly. It may very well be that my hearing is over
>> sensitive but I have never walked out on a band before because I couldn't
>> stand the sound and that includes a lot of bands playing OKOM. After
>> attending Jazz Festivals, concerts, practice gigs, Jazz Clubs, etc for over
>> 35 years now, I have heard a lot of bands. Some good and some not so good
>> but none as bad as this one player or the sound that came out of his horn
>> and who got paid to play and should be sent to the practice room of any Jazz
>> Club before playing in public. In my opinion again of course. I am happy
>> that the musician he hires are getting good pay to play with him and I have
>> talked to more than a few and they all say "It's the money" because it's
>> sure not the music or the fun of it when they tour or play with Woody. Now,
>> this is not just my opinion but the same as those who play with him so I
>> feel I'm on pretty good ground here with this opinion.
>>
>> Let me ask again, if he were anyone else but Woody Allen, a no body you
>> had never met before, would any band leader here, hire him after listening
>> to him play?
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
Alcohol is necessary for a man so that now and then he can have a good
opinion
of himself, undisturbed by the facts

            - Finley Peter Dunne (1867-1936)