[Dixielandjazz] Respect for Bob Ringwald - was - Woody Allen - Part Two

[Stephen G Barbone]

Some of us get the DJML in digest form and do not see messages like  
Bob's in real time. Thus a thread may continue until the digest is  
seen. It has nothing to do with respect for Bob.

I personally have great respect for Bob and what he does for jazz. I  
believe most others on the DJML also share that feeling of respect.

Cheers,
Steve Barbone
www.myspace.com/barbonestreetjazzband


On Jun 5, 2010, at 11:50 AM, Harry Callaghan wrote:

> It is most regrettable that despite Bob Ringwald's proclamation that  
> enough had been said on the Woody Allen matter, that subscribers  
> insist upon continuing on the subject, which Bob said should from  
> this point on be off-list.
>
> I find it totally appalling that Bob is not receiving the respect  
> that he is due
>
> If I were the one running this list, I assure you that such actions  
> would render you off it in a hurry.
>
> HC
>
>
> On 6/5/10, Stephen G Barbone <barbonestreet at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Money is what drives most "professional" musicians Judie. Most of us  
> follow the money. Simple as that. To say we all do it because it's  
> fun is a huge myth. Most of us are trying to make a living and will  
> take any gig we can if it pays. Those who don't care about the  
> money, do it because it's fun, or they love it, are mostly hobby  
> musicians and/or amateurs. Not the professionals who have to make a  
> living.
>
> Would I hire a musician who played like Woody, but was not Woody. Of  
> course not.
>
> Would I hire Woody? Of course.
>
> We're beating a dead horse here. We both agree about his  
> musicianship. The article agrees with us that people go to see HIM  
> first, the music second. Woody says he is not a good musician. So  
> what are we arguing about?
>
> Simply that you felt cheated when you went to see him play. My point  
> is simple. With all the Woody Allen on you tube, you didn't go there  
> to do your homework. You relied instead on a DVD of his European  
> Tour which would have been heavily edited to showcase his best  
> moments, much like the any studio edits out, or fixes the bad parts  
> of CDs these days. We've discussed this type of "editing" many times  
> on the DJML. Most of us (not me) agree that it should be done. I  
> feel it tends to misrepresent what the band sounds like in real time  
> performance. And that some folks will be pissed when the band and/or  
> musician in a live performance doesn't sound like the CD (or DVD)
>
> You have talked with many musicians who played with him in various  
> venues. Did they lie to you about his expertise?
>
> You resent his being "paid" to perform. What? HE is the reason all  
> those people pay big money to see the band. HE fills up the Club  
> Carlyle. HE filled the Opera Houses of Europe on his tour and the  
> concert halls in the USA when he tours here. People fall all over  
> themselves to pay big money see HIM and the band.
>
> Yet you say; "to go down that low and still be paid to perform, is  
> very sad." Where is the logic in that? The man draws a high paying  
> crowd where ever he plays and you say it is very sad to go down that  
> low? To me what is sad is the bands that play OKOM on the cheap, or  
> for nothing.
>
> Let's face it, even with 35 years of experience listening to OKOM  
> and having educated ears, you did not do your homework on Woody  
> Allen. Shame on you not him.
>
> For those who wish to get educated about how Woody plays, and what  
> people think of him, go to you tube and see him warts and all on  
> MANY live visuals. Then read the comments. Some folks like him, some  
> folks hate him which is what I said when I posted that very fine  
> Village Voice Article on Norman Vickers' jazz chat list. Judie took  
> a paragraph from it, out of context, and responded to it on the DJML  
> 2 days before it had been posted here. That caused a little  
> confusion and prompted Eddy's request to let people see the entire  
> article.
>
> That article speaks for itself.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve Barbone
> www.myspace.com/barbonestreetjazzband
>
>
>
> On Jun 4, 2010, at 10:10 PM, JBruno868 at aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
> In a message dated 6/4/2010 5:33:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, barbonestreet at earthlink.net 
>  writes:
> You built up a false set of expectations about the man, expecting  
> perhaps the second coming of Johnny Dodds.
>
> No there you are wrong Steve. My expatiations came from watching his  
> video of his tour in Europe when an old friend of mine was playing  
> trombone with him. Had he played to at least that level I would have  
> been OK but he did not, what 3-5 years later. I forget now when I  
> saw the video. I might also had thought he would have improved since  
> his tour but instead, he was very much worse. If you say any  
> musician can have a bad night, that I agree with but to go down that  
> low and still be paid to perform, is very sad.
>
> I have said it was a very sad disappointment. It wasn't a matter so  
> much of the money but I had bought the tickets for my mom for  
> Christmas as her gift and we were both looking forward to the  
> evening. I would have been just as disappointed had I paid $10 to  
> see him and would have walked or rolled in my case out just as  
> quickly. It may very well be that my hearing is over sensitive but I  
> have never walked out on a band before because I couldn't stand the  
> sound and that includes a lot of bands playing OKOM. After attending  
> Jazz Festivals, concerts, practice gigs, Jazz Clubs, etc for over 35  
> years now, I have heard a lot of bands. Some good and some not so  
> good but none as bad as this one player or the sound that came out  
> of his horn and who got paid to play and should be sent to the  
> practice room of any Jazz Club before playing in public. In my  
> opinion again of course. I am happy that the musician he hires are  
> getting good pay to play with him and I have talked to more than a  
> few and they all say "It's the money" because it's sure not the  
> music or the fun of it when they tour or play with Woody. Now, this  
> is not just my opinion but the same as those who play with him so I  
> feel I'm on pretty good ground here with this opinion.
>
> Let me ask again, if he were anyone else but Woody Allen, a no body  
> you had never met before, would any band leader here, hire him after  
> listening to him play?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> -- 
> Alcohol is necessary for a man so that now and then he can have a  
> good opinion
> of himself, undisturbed by the facts
>
>             - Finley Peter Dunne (1867-1936)