[Dixielandjazz] Trombone Style Change - Kid Ory

[Ron L]

The first thing that struck me about Mole was that he played too many notes.
It has taken quite a while for me to appreciate his playing.

Ron L

-----Original Message-----
From: dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com
[mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] On Behalf Of Marek Boym
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:18 AM
To: lherault at bu.edu
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Trombone Style Change - Kid Ory

Well,
I wonder.  Was Ory an "ear player?"  Ory was a Creole, and the Creoles
often had at least some musical education.  According to Samuel
Charters' "Jazz: New Orleans," Ory learnt to read.  Thus, he was not
just an ear player, although, having started at an early age, might
have begun as such.
And I have not really found Mole to be an unexciting player; on the
contrary - I love Mole (and Napoleon and Nichols) at leas as much as
Ory and JT.
Cheers

On 04/06/2008, Stephen G Barbone <barbonestreet at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > "Stan Brager" <sbrager at socal.rr.com> wrote (polite snip)
> >
> > Jenny had nothing to do with the stylistic change of the trombone from
> that
> > evident on recordings with Kid Ory. That change had already been adopted
> by
> > most modern (late '20s) trombonists when Jenny came on the scene in the
> > early '30s.
> >
>
> Well said Stan.
>
> I think historically, guys like Ory were ear players. Many guys who copied
> Ory were also ear players. And in the context of "New Orleans" Jazz, Ory
got
> tagged as the "definitive" trombone player.
>
> However, Miff Mole and others were more classically trained. Their
> influences were the "legit" trombonists first, and then, as in Mole's
case,
> Eddie Edwards. When Mole was learning how to play trombone, in the New
York
> area around 1910 or so, the classical trombonists were defining the
trombone
> as a solo instrument, not merely a foundation instument. And so some of
the
> New Yorkers developed a very different approach to jazz, especially Mole.
>
> Sometimes, IMO,  we get too inbred in jazz. We preach listening over and
> over to our heros like Ory and decide that he speaks the truth while Mole
> and Teagarden were heretics. But Mole was on the jazz scene by 1918, and
has
> as much right to being a "definitive" jazz trombonist as Ory does.
>
> IMO it is not enough to listen to the original jazz players. To be
complete,
> one should listen to the people they listened to. To get into their minds
as
> to why they did what they did. In Armstrong's case, listening to conetist
> Herbert  Clarke, will give us some insight about one of Armstrong's roots.
> (Especially the West End Blues Cadenza) Or in Bechet's case, listing to
> Enrico Caruso (ah that vibrato) and in Mole's case listening to Herbert
> Clarke's brother, a trombonist and teacher in NYC and also a member of
> Sousa's Band in 1915-16. Other famed New Yorkers who were changing the way
> trombone was played prior to 1920 were Arthur Prior, Gardell Simons and
> Charlie Randall, one of Mole's early teachers..
>
> They above mentioned "legit" musicians had tremendous influence on the
> jazzers and to this day, many jazz musicians listen to classical music
> and/or virtuoso players and derive inspiration from it.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve Barbone
>
> www.barbonestreet.com
> www.myspace.com/barbonestreetjazzband
>
>
>
>
>
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