[Dixielandjazz] Playing for free

[Stephen G Barbone]

> "Robert S. Ringwald" <robert at ringwald.com> wrote
>
> Steve, I have received a great deal of e-mail from the REAL pros  
> thanking me
> for writing the e-mail to the baseball exec.  I'm not sure why you  
> use the
> word "we" but most "good, professional" musicians do not work for  
> free and
> appreciate what I wrote to the gentleman.  According to the response  
> I have
> received, you are very much in the minority on this one.

That's not the point. The point was that "we" musicians in large  
measure, have created the situation of others asking us to play free.  
Not the pros generally but others. Want to make a real difference?  
Write to those bands that play free.

> Steve, I can't speak for any other Jazz Society.  However, the only  
> one I
> play for, for free is the Sacramento Traditional Jazz Society, and  
> only for
> their monthly concerts.  I personally do this as a pay back for all  
> the STJS
> has done for Jazz, including the annual Sacramento Jazz Jubilee, the  
> annual
> Jazz in the Park concerts, the annual Library concert series and other
> events which STJS sponsors and for which we get paid.

I don't doubt you, the comment was directed at those jazz societies  
that do ask and or have bands that play free for "exposure". If STJS  
has never done that, hooray. Others have and still do.

> Plus, the youth music programs that STJS sponsors: The annual STJS  
> Youth
> Camp, scholarship awards for music lessons, the TNT (The New
> Traditionalists) youth band which STJS sponsors and the Traditional  
> Jazz
> Youth Jazz Festival, 3rd annual coming up this month.
>
> To me, lending my time and talent to STJS is akin to belonging to  
> the Lions,
> Elks, or any number of organizations who work for and sponsor various
> charities, hospitals, etc.
>
> This is the only organization that I play for free for and it is  
> only the
> once a month Jazz concerts.  This is my personal decision, just the  
> same as
> your decision on which charity and how, to support.

No argument there, but it's off point. Personally, I pay the band  
members out of my own pocket so that they do not play free when I   
donate the band for a freebie

>> I applaud the marketing exec  for asking. That's his job.

> And as a a professional musician it is my prerogative to to point  
> out to him the absurdity of his request.
>
> When Sacramento had a triple A ball team, I often played for the  
> games.
> We always got paid.
>
> When I lived in Los Angeles, we played for the Raiders and always  
> got paid.

I agree that you can do anything you want, and never even suggested  
that YOU played for free. I just said it is funny that the marketing  
exec was taken to task but not those bands that play free. But was his  
request "absurd"? I bet you there are several bands around that will  
happily play that kind of gig free.

>> I deplore
>> the comments we direct at him for doing his job. The dialog should be
>> between the exec and Stumptown.
>
> Perhaps you forget that his post was posted on a public forum with  
> over 550
> members, many of whom are professional musicians?  If we don't stand  
> up for
> ourselves, who is going to???

It was directed at Stumptown and/or bands that might play free.   
Rather than raising hell with the marketing exec, you might have  
raised hell with bands that play for free.

>> On the other hand, I have nothing but contempt for bands that play  
>> for
>> free. If they didn't do it, we wouldn't have folks asking for
>> freebies. And along that line of reasoning, I deplore the bands that
>> play on OKOM cruises for room and partial board. Of course, alcohol  
>> is
>> not included, nor are the mandatory tips to the crew ($100 per  
>> person)
>> and so you are paying to play. That cruise operator whose butt you
>> kiss, profits mightily from your stupidity. And now there are cruises
>> where musicians pay full price, just to get a chance to play.  
>> (imagine
>> 40 banjos on the most recent one)That's even worse. Who among us will
>> write to the cruise operator and raise hell?
>> Or to our friendly musicians who facilitate this stupidity?
>>
>
> Steve, I'll be doing a cruise to Alaska with Bob Schulz's Frisco  
> Jazz Band,
> along with fellow listmate Scott Anthony,  in July.  We are not
> paying partial board.  Our airfare and complete ticket is paid for  
> plus that
> of our wives or companions.  It is a bartering situation.  As far as  
> I am
> concerned, there is nothing wrong with bartering for your music, or  
> whatever
> as long as both parties are satisfied and both parties get what they  
> want.

Ha ha, that is exactly what the marketing exec did. He was attempting  
to barter exposure and game tickets for the bands services. Under your  
logic above that is now OK? You might not agree to the exec's  
bartering arrangement but others might and it is they who we should  
convince of the error of their ways, rather than one guy in a minor  
league baseball town. Getting mad at him is all posture and no real  
action.
>
> As Stubby will attest, and as any other musician who has been hired by
> cruise lines will attest, working, playing music aboard a ship is  
> not the
> greatest life in the world.  your board is in the bowels of the  
> ship, you
> eat crew food and the cruise line can work you to death.  in port  
> you have
> to wait for all passengers to disembark before you can do so.
>
> in our case, because we are not employees  of the cruise line, and  
> because
> our ticket and the ticket of our companion is paid for, we get very  
> nice
> cabins, we are treated as regular customers, eating steak and  
> lobster in the
> dining room, etc.
>
> Thus for doing one or two sets a night of the kind of music we love  
> to play,
> we get a paid vacation for ourselves as well as our companions.  We  
> get a
> full week aboard a luxury ship, visit several ports, get our roundtrip
> flight for
> ourselves  and companion paid for, hotel paid for if lay over.  To  
> me, we
> are not giving our talent away, we are bartering for a nice vacation.
>
> How many gigs would you have to play in order to get enough money to  
> have
> this sort of a vacation for yourself and your wife?  Why not play them
> aboard a ship and have a fabulous vacation?  You can stay home and  
> play your
> gigs and I will be on a wonderful cruise to
> Alaska.

Funny you should ask. Last week I played 2 gigs that would cover a  
vacation cruise for my wife and me should I choose to take one.
>
>> Stubby Heist had the right idea. He was contracted for money to play
>> music. Anything beyond that sucks.
>
> The type of music Stubby had to play, his living conditions while  
> aboard,
> his playing schedule, of course I would not do that for free.  But  
> in our
> situation, it is completely different.
>
> I'll take a one week fabulous vacation under these conditions any day.

Perhaps so, but you are leaving money on the table that goes to the  
cruise organizer rather than to the musicians, without whom the cruise  
could not take place. You have undervalued your services.

> Regarding 40 banjo players paying their way, these guys are  
> obviously not
> professionals.  They have every right to take a cruise, bring their  
> banjos,
> play together and have a great time.

That's exactly what I said.

> Many groups and organizations get together to enjoy each other's  
> company.
> It may be in a coffee shop, a hotel, a bar, a picnic, or even a  
> cruise.
> They are paying their way thus they are not under any obligation to  
> play or
> not play.  Who are you to say that they should not pay for their  
> ticket,
> bring their banjos and play?

You didn't understand what I said.  I did not say they shouldn't.  
Seems to me I said; "If that's what floats your boat, (pun intended)  
go for it".

>> P.S. No need to resent the guy who plays the baseball game for  
>> great seats,
>> beer and a hot dog either--it all depends on the team and the game.  
>> (quoted from another person, not Steve B who answered) Ha  
>> Ha,reminds me of that old joke about the guy who goes up to a  
>> beautiful woman.

> I don't know about you but, IMHO- taking a luxury cruise aboard a  
> beautiful
> ship to Alaska is not quite the same as getting a beer and a hot dog  
> at a
> ball game.
>
> I could work a bunch of gigs and then pay for my wife and I to go on  
> this
> cruise -- Or I can go on the cruise and play my gigs aboard the ship.
> Personally, I prefer the latter.

No, it's not quite the same. That's what I implied with that old joke  
about sex for $20 or sex for a $1,000,000 and the "What do you think I  
am?"

When you play for room and board you are playing free and that's the  
bottom line. No different than playing for room and board and travel  
to Europe with Liza MineIli or Madonna. You get a great vacation but  
the pros also get paid.  Quite well as one of our trombonists who  
tours with Liza will confirm.

I must admit that I did play free for a cruise once, to Europe and  
back in the 1950s. It was fun, and I spent the Summer gigging in  
Europe. But unlike you, I felt used afterwards. And later in  
discussing it with my professional friends in NYC, they also felt that  
it was a case of being used because the Cruise Line/Operator could  
easily have afforded to pay the band. And he would have paid the band  
had we negotiated properly.

Bottom line on the cruise example I cited is that there is plenty of  
money to pay the bands in addition to room, board and travel to the  
ship.

Price is always a tough issue. Not too different from Wilbut DeParis  
taking the steady gig at Jimmy Ryan's from Conrad Janis circa 1950 or  
so because DeParis decided to underprice the gig. Ask Janis how he  
felt about that sometime.

Cheers,
Steve Barbone