[Dixielandjazz] Jazz? Tunes or Language?

[L Patrick Briody]

Listmates: 
  I'm with Marek, but not adamantly so.  I think that a language requires more than a vocabulary of phrases; a language requires a grammar, a structure of rules.  Applied to music, that implies keys/chords/progressions/tunes.  But these should not confine music from including programmatic forms - unstructured, emotion-stimulating. Perhaps Coltrane and Davis are of the latter.  I think Marek, and I, would prefer the former.  But that's a matter of preference, not necessarily definition.
  Regards,
  Pat
Marek Boym <marekboym at gmail.com> wrote:
  "A language?" Sure. But then, tunes become irrelevant, and they very
much are. I have heard some "jazz" standards played in a completely
"unjazzy" way (how about a saccharine rendition of "The man I Love?").
Same goes for "Giant Steps," whether one considers Coltrane's "music"
jazz or not (personally, and I don't care what you think about it, I
do not consider it music, hence - not jazz).
Cheers
On 10/09/2007, Steve Barbone wrote:
>
> > May I suggest that at least part of the definition refers to what it is
> > NOT. If the number does not a melody which can be whistled or hummed, it is
> > not jazz.
>
> >> Wrong. Jazz is a language.
> >> Any tune can be played in that language.
> >> Understanding the language is the hard part.
>
> >>> Ah! But if it is a "tune," it has a melody by definition.
>
> Semantic disagreement.
>
> Why? Who can define a melody that can be whistled or hummed? How many jazz
> fans do we know that are incapable of whistling or humming even the simplest
> tunes. And how many jazz fans do we know that can whistle or hum complex
> tunes that others can't?
>
> How many times must we hear "Coltrane is not Jazz, but Bix is". Or other
> similar nonsense. Is it our egos that prevent us from realizing that jazz is
> like a huge house with many different rooms. And there is room for all.
>
> Someday, perhaps the fans will quit telling the musicians what jazz is or
> isn't. Someday perhaps the musicians will stop venting to the press about
> what jazz is or isn't. Wouldn't it be nice if all of the self appointed
> experts quit foisting their narrow minded definitions upon the rest of us?
> It will never happen.
>
> I'm with Brian (I think he said Jazz is a language). Jazz is a complex
> language. And like any language, some understand only the basics, while
> others understand the nuances. Some speak jazz with the simple harmonics of
> regular folks. 0thers speak it with the complex harmonics of a William
> Buckley Jr. Big difference and there is audience for both depending upon
> ones level of understanding.
>
> Like "Copenhagen" or "Panama" is jazz. Yet how many listmates can whistle or
> hum the whole tune? So to is "Giant Steps", jazz. Who among us can whistle
> or hum that?
>
> What is Jazz? . . . Jazz is music to YOUR/OUR ears.
>
> YOU are jazz. And Brian is Jazz. And I am Jazz. Etc.. When any of us tries
> to make our personal definition of Jazz fit everyone else in the world, we
> will fail miserably.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve Barbone
>
>
>
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