[Dixielandjazz] Jazz? Tunes or Language?

[Marek Boym]

Hello Pat,
Can't find anything "emotion (or anything else) stimulating" in either
Coltrane or Davis.  The former I mostly find ubearable, the latter -
mostly boring (even on those old Parker records).  "Unstructured"
language would cease being language, wouldn't it?  And as to emotion
stimulating - gee, when I listen to Louis, BG (my all-time favourite),
Lester Young, Bud Freeman, they definitely stimulate my emotions!
Support live jazz.
Cheers

On 11/09/2007, L Patrick Briody <lpbriody at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Listmates:
> I'm with Marek, but not adamantly so.  I think that a language requires more
> than a vocabulary of phrases; a language requires a grammar, a structure of
> rules.  Applied to music, that implies
> keys/chords/progressions/tunes.  But these should not
> confine music from including programmatic forms - unstructured,
> emotion-stimulating. Perhaps Coltrane and Davis are of the latter.  I think
> Marek, and I, would prefer the former.  But that's a matter of preference,
> not necessarily definition.
> Regards,
> Pat
> Marek Boym <marekboym at gmail.com> wrote:
> "A language?" Sure. But then, tunes become irrelevant, and they very
> much are. I have heard some "jazz" standards played in a completely
> "unjazzy" way (how about a saccharine rendition of "The man I Love?").
> Same goes for "Giant Steps," whether one considers Coltrane's "music"
> jazz or not (personally, and I don't care what you think about it, I
> do not consider it music, hence - not jazz).
> Cheers
> On 10/09/2007, Steve Barbone wrote:
> >
> > > May I suggest that at least part of the definition refers to what it is
> > > NOT. If the number does not a melody which can be whistled or hummed, it
> is
> > > not jazz.
> >
> > >> Wrong. Jazz is a language.
> > >> Any tune can be played in that language.
> > >> Understanding the language is the hard part.
> >
> > >>> Ah! But if it is a "tune," it has a melody by definition.
> >
> > Semantic disagreement.
> >
> > Why? Who can define a melody that can be whistled or hummed? How many jazz
> > fans do we know that are incapable of whistling or humming even the
> simplest
> > tunes. And how many jazz fans do we know that can whistle or hum complex
> > tunes that others can't?
> >
> > How many times must we hear "Coltrane is not Jazz, but Bix is". Or other
> > similar nonsense. Is it our egos that prevent us from realizing that jazz
> is
> > like a huge house with many different rooms. And there is room for all.
> >
> > Someday, perhaps the fans will quit telling the musicians what jazz is or
> > isn't. Someday perhaps the musicians will stop venting to the press about
> > what jazz is or isn't. Wouldn't it be nice if all of the self appointed
> > experts quit foisting their narrow minded definitions upon the rest of us?
> > It will never happen.
> >
> > I'm with Brian (I think he said Jazz is a language). Jazz is a complex
> > language. And like any language, some understand only the basics, while
> > others understand the nuances. Some speak jazz with the simple harmonics
> of
> > regular folks. 0thers speak it with the complex harmonics of a William
> > Buckley Jr. Big difference and there is audience for both depending upon
> > ones level of understanding.
> >
> > Like "Copenhagen" or "Panama" is jazz. Yet how many listmates can whistle
> or
> > hum the whole tune? So to is "Giant Steps", jazz. Who among us can whistle
> > or hum that?
> >
> > What is Jazz? . . . Jazz is music to YOUR/OUR ears.
> >
> > YOU are jazz. And Brian is Jazz. And I am Jazz. Etc.. When any of us tries
> > to make our personal definition of Jazz fit everyone else in the world, we
> > will fail miserably.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Steve Barbone
> >
> >
> >
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