[Dixielandjazz] Jazz? Tunes or Language?

[Steve Barbone]

Hi Marek:

No argument from me. That's what I said. "You are jazz", and "Jazz is music
to YOUR ears."

Taking it a step further, we all "hear" differently.

I suppose that makes me a relativist. Damn, I wish Charlie Hooks was still
with us to debate jazz truth vis a vis relativism or absolutism? I miss him.

What either one of us, or anyone else for that matter, thinks jazz is, or is
not, really doesn't matter. To debate what jazz is, or is not, is simply an
exercise in futility.

Cheers,
Steve

on 9/10/07 5:58 PM, Marek Boym at marekboym at gmail.com wrote:

> "A language?"  Sure.  But then, tunes become irrelevant, and they very
> much are.  I have heard some "jazz" standards played in a completely
> "unjazzy" way (how about a saccharine rendition of "The man I Love?").
> Same goes for "Giant Steps," whether one considers Coltrane's "music"
> jazz or not (personally, and I don't care what you think about it, I
> do not consider it music, hence - not jazz).
> Cheers
> On 10/09/2007, Steve Barbone <barbonestreet at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> May I suggest that at least part of the definition refers to what it is
>>> NOT. If the number does not a melody which can be whistled or hummed, it is
>>> not jazz.
>> 
>>>> Wrong. Jazz is a language.
>>>> Any tune can be played in that language.
>>>> Understanding the language is the hard part.
>> 
>>>>> Ah! But if it is a "tune," it has a melody by definition.
>> 
>> Semantic disagreement.
>> 
>> Why? Who can define a melody that can be whistled or hummed? How many jazz
>> fans do we know that are incapable of whistling or humming even the simplest
>> tunes. And how many jazz fans do we know that can whistle or hum complex
>> tunes that others can't?
>> 
>> How many times must we hear "Coltrane is not Jazz, but Bix is". Or other
>> similar nonsense. Is it our egos that prevent us from realizing that jazz is
>> like a huge house with many different rooms. And there is room for all.
>> 
>> Someday, perhaps the fans will quit telling the musicians what jazz is or
>> isn't. Someday perhaps the musicians will stop venting to the press about
>> what jazz is or isn't. Wouldn't it be nice if all of the self appointed
>> experts quit foisting their narrow minded definitions upon the rest of us?
>> It will never happen.
>> 
>> I'm with Brian (I think he said Jazz is a language). Jazz is a complex
>> language. And like any language, some understand only the basics, while
>> others understand the nuances. Some speak jazz with the simple harmonics of
>> regular folks. 0thers speak it with the complex harmonics of a William
>> Buckley Jr. Big difference and there is audience for both depending upon
>> ones level of understanding.
>> 
>> Like "Copenhagen" or "Panama" is jazz. Yet how many listmates can whistle or
>> hum the whole tune? So to is "Giant Steps", jazz. Who among us can whistle
>> or hum that?
>> 
>> What is Jazz? . . . Jazz is music to YOUR/OUR ears.
>> 
>> YOU are jazz. And Brian is Jazz. And I am Jazz. Etc.. When any of us tries
>> to make our personal definition of Jazz fit everyone else in the world, we
>> will fail miserably.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Steve Barbone
>> 
>> 
>> 
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