[Dixielandjazz] Hobby Musicians

Fri Jun 8 06:29:25 PDT 2007

    Thanks for the response, Larry. I appreciate
where you are coming from, and realize that my
post was a bit of an oversimplification ... If I
had played 50 years ago as I do now, I would
probably have set my sights on a music career ...
but I am, for better or worse, a senior citizen
hobby player and fan ... so far I haven't reached
the level where marketing and the marketplace are
real factors ... and when I do go to other live
music, thank goodness there are pros like you and
others on this list who can show me how good it
can be played. OK, back to lurking and riffing in
the garage now ...
;^)

Bob Loomis
Concord CA

--- "Larry Walton Entertainment - St. Louis"
<larrys.bands at charter.net> wrote:

> I completely understand the desire to play for
> people.  After all we learn 
> to play instruments to play them for people.
> 
> I play music to make money and have done that
> ever since the first person 
> handed me $5.  Growing up without things, like
> food, was a motivation to get 
> paying jobs.  When I was in H.S. I had the best
> cloths, a car and I had my 
> shoes shined.  I owned more and much higher
> quality cloths than I have now. 
> These are pretty big incentives. The need to
> put myself through college and 
> try to provide for a family was all the impetus
> that I needed to keep 
> playing.  I was also willing to go to the
> background work to keep employed.
> 
> Honestly today I don't need to do anything for
> anybody but I charge money 
> for several reasons.  The first is money is
> good to have and I have 
> expensive tastes in music stuff.  I am still
> good enough to command a 
> reasonable amount of money in the field.  I
> charge enough that I am not 
> undercutting any other pro.  I don't want to
> play clubs so I am not taking 
> money from other pros who have to live on the
> steady gigs.  I prefer to make 
> it in single engagements which is a lot more
> difficult than steady gigs.
> 
> I guess I would rather have money than someone
> tell me how good I am.  By 
> the way I'm one of the few guys that will walk
> up to another player and tell 
> him how well I thought he did but I don't gush
> either.  My point is how much 
> is it worth if the leader of the band
> complements a guy that totally sucks 
> and then comes over to me and tells me how
> great I was?
> 
> I also understand that it's very nice to
> receive complements but when a guy 
> who is very picky about who he hires calls me I
> take that as a complement. 
> I have been playing for two such guys one of
> whom is a real trial to work 
> for.  Do I like working for him?  Actually yes
> but it's not because of his 
> charming personality.  I like playing his book
> and the rest of the guys in 
> the band and I like the finished product.  I
> also feel good about playing 
> with a good band.
> 
> I guess I have never known what it is to play
> recreationally.  Even the 
> "fun" bands I have played with were to keep up
> chops or to make contacts 
> with other musicians and sometimes clients.  So
> even they are business with 
> me even though I didn't get paid.
> 
> Does it suck the life out of creativity?  I
> can't agree with that although 
> some leaders with their BS can do that but
> there are people in hobby bands 
> that can do that too.
> 
> I think that hobby bands should play for things
> that would never hire 
> someone to play such as church picnics or
> street fairs or a school event. 
> You could play yourself silly on those kind of
> things.
> 
> The minute you start playing for a profit
> making entity weather it's a run 
> down coffee house or a senior citizen home, a
> bar or a country club.  It 
> makes no difference, you have in fact become a
> part of commerce that will 
> enhance that business and as such should be
> paid for that service.  If that 
> business won't pay for your service then go
> elsewhere don't just gift them. 
> As I said there are hundreds of places to play
> that are out of that realm 
> where you will be appreciated.
> 
> Although I mentioned churches I may hedge that
> a bit because they have 
> become venues with paid musicians.  My daughter
> goes to a Mega Church and 
> they have a sound stage that can put a pro
> studio to shame.  The musicians 
> are paid and even tour.  They bring in "names"
> in that field too.  Going to 
> church is like going to a concert.  Even that
> has become show biz.
> 
> I make a very clear separation between the two.
>  Occasionally I donate my 
> services.  I have a gig coming up in September
> where the band is getting 
> paid but I am donating my services.  I can
> donate for myself but not for 
> them.
> 
> It seems to be a fact that if you turn a hobby
> into a profession that tends 
> to kill the hobby.  I have seen it dozens of
> times but it doesn't have to. 
> That's a function of your, or anyone else's,
> personality and how much 
> individual drive and love of something you
> might have.  There is a term for 
> that and it's called "burn out."  It happens
> across the board in all 
> professions and it's not confined to people who
> turn their hobby into a 
> profession.
> 
> I don't have a solution for that.  If I did I
> would be very rich.
> 
> I think there is another difference between
> pros and the hobby musician. 
> The pro is available all the time but the other
> guys don't play on holidays 
> or days or at their whim.  I work a lot because
> we are available at odd 
> times when it isn't convenient to perform.  I
> am working this Sunday because 
> a band decided for what ever reason to not show
> up.  We are reliable whereas 
> hobby bands aren't.
> 
> There are paces in the country that just won't
> support professional music 
> and you may very well be in one of those.  I
> think the rules may very well 
> change in places like that.  I know there are
> places in Missouri where no 
> matter how good you are you couldn't get a
> paying gig.
> 
> I have always gravitated to the big city for
> that exact reason.  If I lived 
> in an out of the way town what would I do?  It
> wouldn't be professional 
> music I think.
> Larry
> St. Louis
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bob Loomis" <miltloomis at yahoo.com>
> To: "Larry Walton" <larrys.bands at charter.net>
> Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List"
> <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 12:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Hobby Musicians
> 
> 
> > Larry wrote:
> >   "There is another difference between a
> hobby
> > band and a pro band.  That is the amount of
> > praise you get when you play a solo or do
> well.
> > Hobby bands fall all over themselves telling
> each
> > other how well they did even when they
> didn't.
> > Pros just don't do it or it's subdued a lot.
> > Another way is warming up on stage,
> practicing
> > between tunes or on breaks or holding a
> > conversation between tunes."
> >
> >   IMHO yet another example of how
> > professionalism can remove the fun from any
> > endeavor ... to a greater or lesser degree
> ... I
> > know first hand not from music but from
> > journalism, writing being my primary talent.
> I
> > made it my career, which gradually sucked the
> fun
> > and creativity out of writing for me. YMMV,
> of
> > course. I'm sure the pros do enjoy performing
> on
> > some level.
> >   However, pro musos aren't the only ones who
> > adopt this strictly business attitude when it
> > comes to complimenting someone. I've noticed
> this
> 
=== message truncated ===

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