[Dixielandjazz] Sitting In and Practice

[Robert S. Ringwald]

See my comments below:

--bob Ringwald


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Barbone" <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
To: "Bob Ringwald" <robert at ringwald.com>
Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 11:29 AM
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Sitting In and Practice


> "Robert S. Ringwald" <robert at ringwald.com> wrote:
>
>> " Steve Barbone's entire last paragraph (Not snipped, not taken out of
>> context)
>> reads"
>>
>> """""
>> Bottom line? The only way to become a competent jazz musician is to 
>> perform
>> live with a professional band and ANY young person who wants to explore 
>> that
>> avenue should get the chance as I see it.
>> """""
>>
>> What ever happened to "practice, practice, practice?"
>
> Nothing happened to it. You can add it if you want.
>>
>> Steve, are you sure that:
>>
>> "The only way to become a competent jazz musician is to perform live with 
>> a
>> professional band...?"
>
> Yes. That is my opinion.



You contradict yourself in this post.  Here you say

"The only way to become a competent jazz musician is to perform live with 
aprofessional band..."

I object to the words "only way."


>
>> Perhaps you meant
>>
>> "Getting a chance to perform live with professional musicians is a big 
>> help
>> to young musicians on their way to becoming competent professionals
>> themselves.  However, there is no substitute for Practice, practice,
>> practice."?
>
> No, I said exactly what I meant. Practice is/was, a different subject.


No, practice is one of the ingredients of becoming a professional musician. 
Sitting in with a professional band is another important ingredient.  But 
merely sitting in with a professional musician is certainly not "the only 
way."


IMO
> practice by oneself, or with jazz musicians who are not competent, will 
> not
> help make one a competent jazz musician anymore than performing live with 
> a
> professional band will, without prior practicing. They are both important.



in your previous paragraph you contradict your previous statement where you 
say that the "only way."  Now you admit that practice is important.
"without prior practicing. They are both important."

Note, I am not taking you out of context.  Your entire message is in this 
post, should you choose to read it.

 So, on one hand you say that the only wayh to become professional is to 
play or sit in with a professional band.  Then you say that sitting in and 
practice are equally important.

Which is it?  Please clarify your opinion.



 > By the same token, however, again IMO, if one wants to become a competent
> jazz musician, one must perform, live, with professional jazz bands.


I agree.  however, you must also practice.


I would
> call that "paying dues", simple as that.
>
> Those who disagree with that statement might offer examples of competent
> jazz musicians who didn't perform live with professional bands.



If you still hold to your original statement, you might then offer examples 
of musicians who became professional without practicing.


>
> IMO, what practice, by itself, does is improve your technique on the axe.
> Live performances with a professional band are much more important to
> developing one's full musical potential as a jazz musician.


I disagree again.  practicing is just as important, which you say below. 
You seem to keep switching your opinion.


> (again IMO)
>
> You and I may be splitting hairs as to what constitutes a professional 
> band.



Oh, I don't think so.  I think I certainly know what a professional band is, 
as you do.



> But that's another discussion entirely. My basic thoughts (but not limited
> to these) about "professional Jazz Bands" are that they play jazz for 
> money
> and they have an audience that will pay to see them perform.
>
> If I had to do the post all over again, I would have prefaced it with IMO
> (IN MY OPINION). But then, I always thought that everything posted by 
> folks
> on chat lists are merely opinions unless otherwise stated.



No.  You stated what you said, opposing opinions, as fact and not as just 
your opinion.

Stating a fact and stating an opinion are two different things.  You, as an 
attorney, should understand that.



 >
> That way folks would be disagreeing with opinions, rather than bitching 
> and
> moaning about attitudes, blanket statements and other such trivial 
> nonsense.



If you have an opinion, I can certainly disagree with it and state my 
opinion.  However, if you state a fact, I can also disagree with it and ask 
you to back it up.  In this case, you appeared to be stating a fact and I 
disagreed with it.

Best,

--bob ringwald


   >
> Cheers,
> Steve Barbone
>
>
>
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