[Dixielandjazz] Don Vappie, etc.

Mon Aug 13 23:31:58 PDT 2007

Dear Marek,

Brubeck's music is certainly Jazz.  Whether it is "Classic Jazz," can be 
argued . . . But it is certainly "Classic."

--Bob Ringwald

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marek Boym" <marekboym at gmail.com>
To: "Bob Ringwald" <robert at ringwald.com>
Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Don Vappie, etc.

> When I was young and coming jazz fan, I listened a lot to Brubeck,
> progressively finding his music less and less jazzy.  That was when I
> was between 16 (my arrival in Israel) and something like 23 (shortly
> after my release from the army).  Befor coming to Israel, my exposure
> to jazz was mainly through the radio, ofr\ten hardly audible (until
> the end of 1956, the communist regime practically blocked stations
> such as the VOA).
> Now (and for many years), not only that I do not consider Brubeck
> "classic jazz" - Ido not consider his music jazz at all!
> Cheers
> SUPPORT LIVE JAZZ
>
> On 13/08/07, Robert S. Ringwald <robert at ringwald.com> wrote:
>> Mike) Logsdon wrote:
>>
>>  > I've been meaning to quote this for some time, from the liner notes 
>> for
>> > Vappie's "In Search of King Oliver" (1998).  Any comments, all?:
>> >
>> > "But the more I learned about jazz, it seemed the less I knew for sure. 
>> > I
>> > know of no subject - except maybe politics - where there is less 
>> > agreement
>> > and less finger-pointing and petty jealousy, all at the expense of the
>> > listener who wants to understand how the music he likes came to be.
>> >
>> > In searching for the music my ear found pleasing and beautiful, I found
>> > the
>> > personal belief of musicians and jazz experts, as well as established
>> > guideposts in jazz literature, to be wildly divergent and unreliable.
>> > Typically, if you ask a jazz artist or fan what describes small group 
>> > jazz
>> > played in the New Orleans style, they will call it traditional jazz, or
>> > Dixieland.  But what does this mean, and who is right?
>> >
>> > I do not call the music on this album traditional jazz.  That term has
>> > been
>> > slapped on everything from modern white Dixieland groups playing in
>> > Seattle
>> > to Norwegian style-mimics playing in Europe to Woody Allen's
>> > clarinet-playing in New York to New Orleans' own Preservation Hall Jazz
>> > Band.  I don't know what traditional jazz describes any more [sic].
>> >
>> > The music performed on this album is classic jazz.  The term classic 
>> > jazz
>> > in
>> > the New Orleans style has a focused and narrow bandwidth:  It refers to
>> > disciplined ensemble playing with well-defined and consistently played
>> > instrument parts for each song which are best performed from close
>> > arrangements.  Notes are followed and played for each instrument the 
>> > same
>> > way each time.  One only has to listen to King Oliver's Creole Jazz 
>> > Band
>> > recordings to hear this style.
>> >
>> > What about improvisation?  The tight discipline of the classic New 
>> > Orleans
>> > style allows for a sure-footed progression through each piece.  Since 
>> > the
>> > musicians know exactly where each other are at all times, individual
>> > expression in coloration, mood, and beat is not only possible, but 
>> > comes
>> > naturally.  The music, contrary to perceived wisdom and instinct, 
>> > becomes
>> > more alive and beautiful.  The chaos and cacophony of unbridled
>> > improvisation contrasts with the swinging, happy emotion this recording
>> > evokes.  The proof is in the listening, and the music on this CD once
>> > heard,
>> > I think you will agree:  The perceived wisdom, oft-repeated and rarely
>> > challenged, that improvisation and beauty in performance are stifled by
>> > scored arrangements in small group jazz, is wrong."
>>  (snip)
>>
>> When I started listening to and loving "Classic jazz" Dixieland, 
>> Traditional
>> Jazz, I was about 8-years old.  That was in 1948.  1920 was only 28 years
>> away.
>>
>> Now, 1920 is 87 years away.
>>
>> Dave Brubeck's quartet with Paul Desmond, Ugene Wright and  Joe Morello, 
>> is
>> 47 years old.  I would
>> consider them as playing "Classic jazz."
>>
>> Some of the definitions of "Classic" From Dictionary.com
>>
>> 15.
>> an artist or artistic production considered a standard.
>> 16.
>> a work that is honored as definitive in its field:
>>  17.
>> something noteworthy of its kind and worth remembering:
>>
>> Don't you think that at this point in time, we could also call the jazz 
>> that
>> the Brubeck Quartet played in the 50s, Traditional Jazz?
>>
>> But you cannot call them "Dixieland."
>>
>> How about the George Shearing Quintet?  Or the early recordings of Miles
>> Davis?
>>
>> At this point in time, in respect to how long ago they all played Jazz 
>> and
>> how their music has endured, can't we consider their music as "Classic or
>> Traditional Jazz?"
>>
>>  What to call the style of jazz that we like is certainly a problem.
>>
>> --Bob Ringwald
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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