[Dixielandjazz] Pay Scales/The Devil Is In the Details

[Steve Barbone]

Hi Ginny:

We are all underbidding the giants. e.g. No way can any of us get what Dave
Brubeck gets for a gig. The tricky part is figuring out our own personal
niches. From where I sit, in the overall music market for the Philadelphia
USA  area, I price for that market, in competition with journeymen
professional musicians. You find out what the general pricing parameters are
by being in that market and by hiring musicians from that market. If they
work for you, instead of the other guys, you are priced at or above the
market level. If they turn down your gigs, you are pricing too low for the
quality of music you wish to provide.

Agents are another matter. Their job, as most see it, is to maximize their
profit and get you for the cheapest price they can. When you first deal with
them, you may do their gig for $600 and find out later that the agent was
paid $2500.  (All examples are for a six-piece band)

By mostly self-booking, I've found out where the band pricing should be in
various situations and will not take an agent developed gig for less that
that. Cuts down on the agent gigs, however pays off over time as your band
builds its reputation. I've had clients who deal with agents request our
band specifically and so the agent has to meet our price. Like $1200 for a
local store opening etc., which other bands would gladly take for $600.

Don't tell the client if you are selling a Chevy instead of a Caddy. Just
price to get the gig. If you undercut another band, that's the way it is and
all part of the business. I don't mind being under priced. I do mind being
grossly under priced. e.g. if the market price for a one hour concert is
$900 for a six piece band in certain venues, I hate it when another band
quotes $480 for it. That's what I would call screwing up the market.

Yes, it is a challenge and it takes some time in the marketplace before one
can figure out where the pricing is. Like weddings. I told another Dixieland
band leader about a Society Wedding I did for $5500. His remark was: "Gee
some people don't know what they should pay for a band" Wrong, because in
their milieu, those people expect to pay that and more. I was sorry I didn't
ask for more, considering how fast they said yes, book it. I know I left
some money on the table in that case.

I will never forget standing next to Lester Lanin about 50 years ago when he
was on the phone with a prospective client. What I heard him say was: "The
price for your affair is $20,000".  Then he listened for a while and said;
"OK, we'll do it for $15,000." Couple of my pals ended up on the gig. It was
mostly "Polite Dixieland" and a 7 piece band plus a singer. They got $500 a
piece and Lanin made $11,000, but he had to be there. and lead the band.

Perception . . . Hey invitees, we've got Lanin and a Lanin band, aren't we
swell? 

How do you get there? Reputation,  by schmoozing the clients, by moving in
their circles, etc. You and I may never totally get there, but we should be
reaching for it.

Sometimes it is as simple as asking the client; "How much do you have
budgeted for the band?" Some will tell you, and it may just be more then you
would have asked for without digging. Others who are under your price, may
have the flexibility to meet what you want if you ask them to do so.

Sorry I can't provide hard and fast rules about pricing. It is all
different, like buying a new car. Some of us visit several dealers, check
the internet sources for pricing, get several quotes and then finally buy.
Others just pay thousands more for the same vehicle. Why? Because they did
not study the marketplace dynamics.

Cheers,
Steve

on 4/6/07 11:17 AM, Gluetje1 at aol.com at Gluetje1 at aol.com wrote:

I appreciate the details Tom, Steve, Elizer are providing and hope the
discussion keeps going.  But some things I can't sort through.  If you know
you are selling a Chevrolet and not a Cadillac, you price it less.  How then
do you avoid underbidding the price of the Cadillac?  I suppose I'm really
asking for ethics we'd like to see prevail among booking agents.  Do you say
to the buyer, "I'm selling a Chevy.  If you want a Cadillac, call X?"  Steve
talks below about increasing fees yearly, building demand, (business plan
stuff); about not charging so little that it screws up the market in your
area.  Seems a challenge that may take some psychic skills to discern.  How
do businesses (bands) start, build, grow, and not have a cost that is less
that the giants, use pricing as a way to get their product to market, etc.
Ginny