[Dixielandjazz] Why guitar and not banjo?

[D and R Hardie]

Hi Ed.
            The violin has a distinguished history in early jazz. Until 
about 1917 all the well known New Orleans black bands had a violinist 
leader. Steve Barbone has listed a few on list. The Bolden photo omits 
violin and drummer but it is well known Buddy used violinists Tom 
Adams, Dee Dee Brooks and probably Alcide Frank at different times. 
Apparently Bolden substituted the second clarinet  for violin when 
Alcide Frank left to form his own band around 1905. As you say, even 
the Beiderbecke alumni used violin although the black bands of the 20's 
largely  abandoned it, An  exception is the wonderful set of recordings 
by Armand Piron's New Orleans Orchestra beginning in 1923.
regards
Dan Hardie
http://tinyurl.com/nqaup
On Tuesday, December 26, 2006, at 08:53  AM, EDWIN COLTRIN wrote:

> Just to add to the fray. There has been no mention of the violin in 
> this thread, haviing listened to many records from the early 1900 
> through the 1920s. there was a presence of the violin in the dance 
> bands of that era. Some who played  Dixieland as part of the program.
>
>   Secondly, in mention of the YBJB, Lu used both the tuba/banjo 
> section and also the standup bass/banjo on some tunes Clancey Hayes or 
> Harry Mordecai on banjo and the rocking and rolling of Dick Lammi on 
> the tuba or his gyrations on the bass necessitating a change of shirts 
> between sets
>
>   A very MERRY CHRISTMAS  to and to all a goodnight, nos da.
>
>   Slainte, I raise m'glass to ya.
>
>   Ye Olde Mouldy Fygge
>
>   Ed Coltrin
>
>
>
>   Yes you were wrong. But then me too. That picture of Bolden is 
> reversed in
> the Burns book. :-) VBG.
>
> I just checked it to see some more pictures of well known early 
> jazz/dance
> bands that used guitar/double bass. Those bands included.
>
> 1) Buddy Bolden (circa 1905)
>
> 2) Woodland Band (Kid Ory's band circa 1905)
>
> 3) The Eagle Band (Big Eye Nelson, Frankie Dusen, Buddy Petite circa 
> 1916)
>
> 4) Peerless Orchestra (circa 1910) Concert version of the Below Band
>
> 5) The Ten Well Known Gentlemen (circa 1909) Dance Version of above
>
> 6) Original Superior Orchestra (Bunk Johnson, Peter Bocage circa 1908)
>
> 7) Creole Orchestra From N.O. (Freddie Keppard, George Baquet, circa 
> 1914)
>
> Then came ODJB and recordings. They used piano (no banjo or double 
> bass).
> Lots of bands copied them.
>
> King Oliver used piano and Double bass. Circa 1920s.
>
> NORK used piano and Double Bass. etc. Circa 1920's.
>
> I'm not sure when banjo/tuba became the hip rhythm instruments but 
> maybe
> they peaked during or after the "revival" years of Lu Watters, George 
> Lewis
> and Shakey's? :-) VBG.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve Barbone
>
>
> Bob Romans at cellblk7 at comcast.net wrote:
>
>> Merry...you know, Listmates!
>> From the git-go I thought the early bands used banjos and brass 
>> basses/bass
>> saxes/sarrusaphones because they could be heard, not like acoustic 
>> string
>> basses and guitars. Then when it was learned that you could amplify 
>> guitars
>> and string basses, banjos and tubas went almost away...I guess I was 
>> wrong?
>> Warmest regards,
>> Bob Romans,
>> 1617 Lakeshore Drive,
>> Lodi, Calif., 95242
>> PH 209-747-1148
>> www.cellblockseven2002.net
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Steve Barbone"
>
>>> Dan Hardie wrote
>>>
>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>> Louis Lince seems to have answered your question about the Bolden 
>>>> Band.
>>>> The photo Louis refers to is on my Loudest Trumpet web page - the
>>>> right way round! Most jazz Bands in New Orleans appear to have used
>>>> the guitar until the 1920's, when the banjo became popular. It is
>>>> strange because historically the banjo was the instrument of the 
>>>> slaves
>>>> - even the street bands in New Orleans employed guitarists like 
>>>> Brock
>>>> Mumford, not much evidence of banjos.
>>>
>>> Perhaps they used guitar because ALL of the early Jazz Bands were
>>> primarily
>>> Dance Bands? Just a guess on my part, but to me it seems that guitar 
>>> would
>>> be better in a Dance Band than Banjo. Then too, banjo was associated 
>>> with
>>> Minstrels and maybe the Dance/Jazz Bands didn't particularly want 
>>> that
>>> sort
>>> of an image?
>>>
>>> The Buddy Bolden photo that Dan's book shows correctly, is also shown
>>> correctly in the Ken Burns book on Jazz.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Steve Barbone
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>>> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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