[Dixielandjazz] Circle of 5ths or 4ths

[Steve barbone]

"John Farrell" <stridepiano at tesco.net>

> Some of the responses to this thread have been interesting. One, Steve
> Barbone's, suggested that if by now I did not know what a circle of 5ths was
> then I must be suffering from arrested musical development - in fact my
> original question to the list was not what it was, but why it was it so
> called when the intervals employed were 4ths.

John, John, I did not suggest that. Please re-read what I wrote. You were
not referred to in any way, especially since you know what it is.
> 
> Another suggestion was that "5ths" indicated the number of chromatically
> ascending notes required to progress to the subdominant key (five).  A novel
> notion but I don't buy it.
> 
> Several listmates have said that the circle of 5ths is also known as a
> circle of fourths, the latter according with my contention. Others pointed
> out that the 5th refers to the relationship of the dominant note, while this
> has an authoritative ring it seems to me to be an unnecessarily clumsy
> system of identifying a simple harmonic progression.
> 
> Had the notorious Joe McCarthy been musically inclined he might have branded
> some of his victims The Circle Of Fifths.

For any who are confused, following is the best explanation I have ever seen
for the Circle of Fourths or Circle of Fifths:

It refers to root movement of chord/scale progressions as follows.

First of all, think of a circle or clock face. Put C in the 12 o:clock
position, then clockwise etc.

F,          at l o'clock
Bb,            2 
Eb,            3
Ab,            4
Db (C#),       5 
F#,            6
B              7
E              8
A              9
D             10
G             11
C             12

When moving the root around the clock face. (assuming first from the C chord
at 12 to the F chord at 1)

Going from C to a HIGHER F the interval is a 4th. (C-F, F-Bb, Bb-Eb etc.,
upscale)

Going from C to a LOWER F it is a 5th. (etc.,Same progression, downscale)

So, depending upon whether you are going up the scale, or down the scale it
is either a circle of 4th, or a circle of 5ths and why both names apply
correctly. Especially since many tunes were written moving the chords and
roots downward along a circle of 5ths. (Salty Dog, Ballin The Jack etc)

Cheers,
Steve