[Dixielandjazz] Who invented jazz?

[Bill Gunter]

Hi Listmates,

Great thread here (who invented jazz) and Charles Suhor just posted a rather 
provacative memo:

>. . . without these African contributions, jazz wouldn't have sounded like 
>jazz: RHYTHMIC COMPLEXITY (unparalleled in Western music),

Rhythmic complexity unparalleled in western music?? I don't know . . .

Jazz rhythms have always seemed pretty straightforward to me. Duple meter - 
easy to dance to . . .

But for western music with REALLY complex rhythmic elements don't overlook 
the Greeks, who can even dance to 5/4 time signatures as well as other odd 
elements (7 beats to the measure, etc.). And western classical music offers 
great rhythmic complexities (Stravinsky, a Roosian for example) and 
contemporary serious composers galore are busy fooling around with just this 
element of music and most of them are not of African extraction.

>IMPROVISATION (mainly defunct in classical performance after Bach, 
>Beethoven),

Classical music (from about 1800 to 1900) somewhat rigidified and tended to 
suppress improvisation, although the cadenzas in quite a few concertos were 
designed to give a somewhat free rein to the performer. However, the music 
of the 19th century (the Romantic through the latest Modernist schools have 
gotten back to this aspect of music (improvisation) -- somethimes, in my 
judgment, not always "good" music, nevertheless, they seem to be sincere as 
they work at it. But the point is, you can't attribute "improvisation" to 
the African influence on contemporary music.

>BLUE TONALITY (5-note scale),

Is the 5 tone scale (an oriental construction as I understand it) really the 
basis of "blue" tonality? I would have thought it was the flatting of some 
of the notes in a regular tonic scale -- notably the third and the seventh 
among others. I'd like to see some examples of a five tone scale which is 
attributable to an African influence.

>VOICE-BASED INSTRUMENTAL TONE (bent notes, smears, growls, rips, etc., 
>dating to early African-American expression  . . .

I think Charlie Suhor has something here to demonstrate an authentic African 
contribution to jazz. By the way, the Australian aborigines, in their 
playing of the digeridoo, also express these very same vocalizations. They 
(Africans and Aborigines) are what cultured westerners may refer to as 
"primitive" but there is no question that these influences are important to 
jazz.

Respectfully submitted,

Bill "Don't forget the French - Ravel, etc.) Gunter
jazzboard at hotmail.com