[Dixielandjazz] Who invented jazz?

[Charles Suhor]

Back again, listmates--

There are at least 2 questions--one, were there precedents in other 
musics for the elements that entered jazz?--there were many.

And two, in the then-and-there where jazz was born, what were the 
musical elements prominent in that environment?--and there, the African 
elements dominated. E.g., there weren't a lot of Romantic classical 
artists and Greek players prominently modeling improv in N.O and the 
environs, but it was a hauge part of the African instrumental and vocal 
heritage, so it was right on hand as an ingredient.

Rhythmic complexity in African drumming was miles beyond what was done 
in with classical rhythmic figures. It didn't show up at first in the 
jazz rhythm sections, which were bound by the Western-based time 
signatures of marches and other popular music. And African drumming had 
been banned in N.O., so the rhythmic consciousness had to be expressed 
elsewhere. As Jack Stewart has noted, the melodic figures of ragtime 
were a realization of the rich percussion legacy. They had irregular 
(in classical terms) accents that were an attempt to escape the Western 
tyranny of typical on-the-beat line empases  (though we can cite 
atypical exceptions, esp. by Bach). Accents, intentional lagging behind 
the beat, and other aspects of jazz ensemble and solo playing carried 
this forward. There's a bunch of scholarship on this, but the neat 
thing for me is that the ideas comport with historical knowledge and 
with my sense of the recorded evidence that we have.

Charlie Suhor


On Feb 9, 2005, at 4:52 PM, Bill Gunter wrote:

> Hi Listmates,
>
> Great thread here (who invented jazz) and Charles Suhor just posted a 
> rather provacative memo:
>
>> . . . without these African contributions, jazz wouldn't have sounded 
>> like jazz: RHYTHMIC COMPLEXITY (unparalleled in Western music),
>
> Rhythmic complexity unparalleled in western music?? I don't know . . .
>
> Jazz rhythms have always seemed pretty straightforward to me. Duple 
> meter - easy to dance to . . .
>
> But for western music with REALLY complex rhythmic elements don't 
> overlook the Greeks, who can even dance to 5/4 time signatures as well 
> as other odd elements (7 beats to the measure, etc.). And western 
> classical music offers great rhythmic complexities (Stravinsky, a 
> Roosian for example) and contemporary serious composers galore are 
> busy fooling around with just this element of music and most of them 
> are not of African extraction.
>
>> IMPROVISATION (mainly defunct in classical performance after Bach, 
>> Beethoven),
>
> Classical music (from about 1800 to 1900) somewhat rigidified and 
> tended to suppress improvisation, although the cadenzas in quite a few 
> concertos were designed to give a somewhat free rein to the performer. 
> However, the music of the 19th century (the Romantic through the 
> latest Modernist schools have gotten back to this aspect of music 
> (improvisation) -- somethimes, in my judgment, not always "good" 
> music, nevertheless, they seem to be sincere as they work at it. But 
> the point is, you can't attribute "improvisation" to the African 
> influence on contemporary music.
>
>> BLUE TONALITY (5-note scale),
>
> Is the 5 tone scale (an oriental construction as I understand it) 
> really the basis of "blue" tonality? I would have thought it was the 
> flatting of some of the notes in a regular tonic scale -- notably the 
> third and the seventh among others. I'd like to see some examples of a 
> five tone scale which is attributable to an African influence.
>
>> VOICE-BASED INSTRUMENTAL TONE (bent notes, smears, growls, rips, 
>> etc., dating to early African-American expression  . . .
>
> I think Charlie Suhor has something here to demonstrate an authentic 
> African contribution to jazz. By the way, the Australian aborigines, 
> in their playing of the digeridoo, also express these very same 
> vocalizations. They (Africans and Aborigines) are what cultured 
> westerners may refer to as "primitive" but there is no question that 
> these influences are important to jazz.
>
> Respectfully submitted,
>
> Bill "Don't forget the French - Ravel, etc.) Gunter
> jazzboard at hotmail.com
>
>
>
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