[Dixielandjazz] Re: Bass Amplification

Sat Sep 11 08:43:55 PDT 2004

Nice explanation, Pat. You're right on!

I always ask my bassist to amplify, except if we're strolling. In the case
of my Banjo Barons trio, there is a lot of sound at the treble side of the
equation with two banjos, and the bass sound is a necessity to balance it
out.

It doesn't take much -- but the balance is much, much better when there is a
small amount of amplification. Otherwise, the base gets lost in the mix. It
can be heard on stage, but not much in the audience.

Mike Woitowicz
The Banjo Barons Ragtime Band
www.banjobarons.com

The Dixie Barons Dixieland Band
www.banjobarons.com/dixiebarons.html

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Patrick Cooke" <patcooke at cox.net>
To: "john petters" <johnpetters at tiscali.co.uk>; "'Tony Orr'"
<torr at alphalink.com.au>; <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Ride cymbals

> John said:
>        >My biggest beef is still with amped bass, because a loud bottom
end
> forces everyone up in volume.
>
>         John....
>       I respect what you say, and I'll grant you a lot of bass players do
> crank up the amp too loud.  I try to use the amp as a tool rather than
> merely just to make everything louder.
>        With an acoustic bass,(amplified or not), the balance of the
> instrument from the top strings to the bottom strings is terrible.
Remember
> that the acoustic bass was originally designed to be bowed....and when
> bowing, the bottom strings have more definition and also enough strength
to
> be heard adequately.  But when picking, the bottom strings (especially the
> E) has almost no definition, and considerably less strength than the top
> strings.  I use an equalizer in front of the amp, which I set to bring up
> the bottom strings, without adding much (or very little) to the top.
Before
> amplifiers, I and most others rarely played on the bottom strings, because
> the notes couldn't be heard over a brass section and a loud drummer.  Also
> the notes had little definition...they were more of just a blur.
>       A word about definition......
>   I have always held that a deaf violinist cannot have good intonation.
One
> has to hear the notes clearly in order to play it in tune.  I have heard
(on
> records!) so many top bass players who have played out of tune..some
> infrequently, and some more often.  I am talking about downbeat poll
> winners, and well respected players.  And not just one or two..a lot of
> them.  One of them I know of uses gut strings, which have to be constantly
> tweaked, usually has fine intonation, but I have heard him on record be
> really out of tune.  I am not going to mention any names, because my own
> intonation is far from perfect.  Some days just I can't seem to nail the
> notes just right, other times they ring like a bell.  I do know that when
I
> hear my notes clearly, it's better.  I try to position the amp behind me
up
> on a chair, so I can hear it without cranking it up enough to blast
> everybody out of the room.  I'm trying to find a little headphone amp that
I
> can take from my direct box which has an extra output.  That way I can
> adjust the headphone without cranking up the amp.
>       The electric bass doesn't seem to need a lot of extra sound
tweaking,
> because the electric was designed for picking.  True, it can't be bowed;
but
> if all you are gong to do is pick, its definitely a better mousetrap.
That
> last statement should start a big flap, and I'm ready for it!
>      There is another problem...On the same gig, one guy will want me to
> crank it up, and another will want me to turn it down.  I don't have an
> answer for that one!
>      I guess you have to be a bass player to understand it fully.  I
> sometimes go on a gig, and before I'm even unpacked, the leader will come
> over and say "Don't crank up the amp, in fact you really don't need
> it...it's a small room."  I know I'm in trouble, because I do need it and
> tell him so.  As a drummer, I'm sure you have been told to keep it soft
> before you have even set up.  Its in the manual titled "How to be a band
> leader."  Bass players and drummers are always being told how to play by
> people who don't play either instrument;  yet I don't remember having ever
> told or even suggested how a horn player should play.
>      Pat Cooke
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "john petters" <johnpetters at tiscali.co.uk>
> To: "'Tony Orr'" <torr at alphalink.com.au>; <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 3:42 AM
> Subject: RE: [Dixielandjazz] Ride cymbals
>
>
> Tony said
> >The clip of the recording of Krupa at
> http://www.traditional-jazz.com/pge_krup.htm is quite different to the
> Red Nicholls and His Five Pennies 78 I have where Krupa switched from
> >2/4 to 4/4 in one chorus which brings the whole thing to the boil.
> I'd like to hear that Tony. I'm not sure if it is the same session but a
> different take or from a different session altogether.
>
> > Ride cymbal is great in the right place e.g a big band, modern jazz.
>
> That excludes such OKOM recordings as Baby Dodds with  Mutt Carey and the
> Rudi Blesch This Jazz shows, Geo Wettling with Davison & Brunies, Big Sid
> with the Louis All-stars....... I think it certainly has a place, but used
> sparingly.
>
> > I would rather play
> accoustically and, the banjo sounds much better when it is not thrashed.
> To me, at least.
>
> All bands are better off playing acoustically - unless they are using
> specifically electric instruments - ie electric guitar which Bechet used
in
> 1938 and later. The Kansas City 5 & 7 with electric and acoustic guitars
> worked well. Big problem to day is a never decreasing cycle of sound.
Remove
> the pa from the equation and a good band will balance itself. My biggest
> beef is still with amped bass, because a loud bottom end forces everyone
up
> in volume.
> John Petters
> Amateur Radio Station G3YPZ
> www.traditional-jazz.com
>
>
>
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