[Dixielandjazz] Ride cymbals

[Patrick Cooke]

John said:
       >My biggest beef is still with amped bass, because a loud bottom end
forces everyone up in volume.

        John....
      I respect what you say, and I'll grant you a lot of bass players do
crank up the amp too loud.  I try to use the amp as a tool rather than
merely just to make everything louder.
       With an acoustic bass,(amplified or not), the balance of the
instrument from the top strings to the bottom strings is terrible.  Remember
that the acoustic bass was originally designed to be bowed....and when
bowing, the bottom strings have more definition and also enough strength to
be heard adequately.  But when picking, the bottom strings (especially the
E) has almost no definition, and considerably less strength than the top
strings.  I use an equalizer in front of the amp, which I set to bring up
the bottom strings, without adding much (or very little) to the top.  Before
amplifiers, I and most others rarely played on the bottom strings, because
the notes couldn't be heard over a brass section and a loud drummer.  Also
the notes had little definition...they were more of just a blur.
      A word about definition......
  I have always held that a deaf violinist cannot have good intonation.  One
has to hear the notes clearly in order to play it in tune.  I have heard (on
records!) so many top bass players who have played out of tune..some
infrequently, and some more often.  I am talking about downbeat poll
winners, and well respected players.  And not just one or two..a lot of
them.  One of them I know of uses gut strings, which have to be constantly
tweaked, usually has fine intonation, but I have heard him on record be
really out of tune.  I am not going to mention any names, because my own
intonation is far from perfect.  Some days just I can't seem to nail the
notes just right, other times they ring like a bell.  I do know that when I
hear my notes clearly, it's better.  I try to position the amp behind me up
on a chair, so I can hear it without cranking it up enough to blast
everybody out of the room.  I'm trying to find a little headphone amp that I
can take from my direct box which has an extra output.  That way I can
adjust the headphone without cranking up the amp.
      The electric bass doesn't seem to need a lot of extra sound tweaking,
because the electric was designed for picking.  True, it can't be bowed; but
if all you are gong to do is pick, its definitely a better mousetrap.  That
last statement should start a big flap, and I'm ready for it!
     There is another problem...On the same gig, one guy will want me to
crank it up, and another will want me to turn it down.  I don't have an
answer for that one!
     I guess you have to be a bass player to understand it fully.  I
sometimes go on a gig, and before I'm even unpacked, the leader will come
over and say "Don't crank up the amp, in fact you really don't need
it...it's a small room."  I know I'm in trouble, because I do need it and
tell him so.  As a drummer, I'm sure you have been told to keep it soft
before you have even set up.  Its in the manual titled "How to be a band
leader."  Bass players and drummers are always being told how to play by
people who don't play either instrument;  yet I don't remember having ever
told or even suggested how a horn player should play.
     Pat Cooke

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "john petters" <johnpetters at tiscali.co.uk>
To: "'Tony Orr'" <torr at alphalink.com.au>; <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 3:42 AM
Subject: RE: [Dixielandjazz] Ride cymbals


Tony said
>The clip of the recording of Krupa at
http://www.traditional-jazz.com/pge_krup.htm is quite different to the
Red Nicholls and His Five Pennies 78 I have where Krupa switched from
>2/4 to 4/4 in one chorus which brings the whole thing to the boil.
I'd like to hear that Tony. I'm not sure if it is the same session but a
different take or from a different session altogether.

> Ride cymbal is great in the right place e.g a big band, modern jazz.

That excludes such OKOM recordings as Baby Dodds with  Mutt Carey and the
Rudi Blesch This Jazz shows, Geo Wettling with Davison & Brunies, Big Sid
with the Louis All-stars....... I think it certainly has a place, but used
sparingly.

> I would rather play
accoustically and, the banjo sounds much better when it is not thrashed.
To me, at least.

All bands are better off playing acoustically - unless they are using
specifically electric instruments - ie electric guitar which Bechet used in
1938 and later. The Kansas City 5 & 7 with electric and acoustic guitars
worked well. Big problem to day is a never decreasing cycle of sound. Remove
the pa from the equation and a good band will balance itself. My biggest
beef is still with amped bass, because a loud bottom end forces everyone up
in volume.
John Petters
Amateur Radio Station G3YPZ
www.traditional-jazz.com



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