[Dixielandjazz] Re: "police" & rules - was Watch Your Back - was haiku

Steve barbone barbonestreet at earthlink.net
Fri Oct 22 18:57:10 PDT 2004

Dear Bill:

You still don't get it do you?


If I thought you were serious I would respond in song titles with what we
Americans seem to be saying is Haiku;  Like:

Sorry. Bill. You are
So Vain You Probably Think
This Song Is About You.

However, please all you haiku experts, note the following:

One of the greatest exponents of this art form in Japan was Basho (1644-94)

Three Haiku by Basho

Waterjar cracks:
I lie awake
This icy night.

Heron's cry
Stabs the darkness

Sick on a journey:
Over parched fields
Dreams wander on.

NOW, WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT 17 SYLABLES? IN 5, 7, 5 sequence? The above is
classical Haiku from the 17th Century. The form referred to is that the poem
must be rendered in 17 written JAPANESE CHARACTERS. These are not the same
as syllables. In our barbarian effort to understand, we say syllable,
however that just proves our ignorance in our attempt to codify an
unfamiliar art form into something our simple minds can understand. For us
to compare the American/English written form (words) to Japanese character
printed form (art) is simply absurd.

In addition, the rules from the days of Classical Haiku to Modern Haiku have
changed too, just like jazz. They have been "reformed" by learned Japanese
during the past 4 centuries.

So, if I may quote you, "Ptooey, phhhthh, bleacchhhh, and doo doo!"

Steve Barbone

on 10/22/04 9:16 PM, Bill Gunter at jazzboard at hotmail.com wrote:

> Yo, all,
> I sent a funny response to Steve's amusing post about how Ringwald, Wiggins,
> Romans and I reside in that part of the country where an eight syllable
> Haiku second line is considered illegal.

quoted in your post) It was NOT ABOUT HAIKU at all. Have you been at the
single malt, else how can that elude you? PLAINLY SPEAKING Phil's post and
PREVALENT. Hence the reference to THE AREA in which you guys live. Not about
you or the other guys at all.

> In return for this lovely bit of commentary I get a slab of words about
> breaking rules in jazz which was an attempt to show that I'm obviously
> overly rigid. As if the object of rules is to break them. As if Haiku allows
> for freedom of expression outside the parameters.

Haiku has changed from the 17th century to present day because Haiku did
indeed allow for a freedom of expression outside the parameters. The
parameters were then changed. I suggest you research the subject before
making statements about the rules of Haiku.
> Well, all I have to say is "Ptooey, phhhthh, bleacchhhh, and doo doo!"
> Comparing Haiku to jazz is like comparing mathmatics to guessing. With math
> it's either right or wrong. With guessing if you're close it's better than
> if you're not close.

Oh my, what an impossible rationale. You are apples & oranges above, but Art
is Art. Rule breaking is a very distinct part of the growth in art. Without
it, you would still be listening to ragtime, not jazz. Again, Haiku rules
have been changed also.
> So there, smart guy!
> Bill "Let's see you weasel your way out of that one" Gunter
> jazzboard at hotmail.com

Just the facts, Bill, no weasels. For goodness sake, READ and UNDERSTAND
what people say rather than just spouting nonsense. And before any of us
start spouting about the "rules" of Haiku, I suggest we research the subject
just a little more carefully.
>> From: Steve barbone <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
>> on 10/22/04 7:31 PM, Bill Gunter at jazzboard at hotmail.com wrote:
>> See my comments in the body of his message, if interested.
>>> Listmates,
>>> Steve B. broke a Haiku rule when he wrote:
>>>> What Is This Thing Called
>>>> Love I Can't Give You Anything
>>>> Butt Love Careless Love
>>> and Phil O'Rourke wrote:
>>>> Isn't that illegal in most states of the US??
>>> To which Steve B. responded:
>>>> Heck no. Not only that but in some areas, like where Romans, Ringwald,
>>>> Wiggins and Gunter reside, it is prevalent. I think that's where the
>>>> expression "Watch your back" originated.

Now, as anyone can plainly see, except a few dullards, the above exchange is
not about Haiku

More information about the Dixielandjazz mailing list