[Dixielandjazz] Re: WHERE DO WE DRAW THE OKOM LINE?

[D and R Hardie]

Dear Tom and others,
  I wonder if jazz before 1917 would qualify as Dixieland?
regards
Dan Hardie
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~darnhard/EarlyJazzHistory.html

On Thursday, August 19, 2004, at 05:45  AM, TCASHWIGG at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/18/04 12:11:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> mophandl at landing.com writes:
>
>>
>> NOT to draw a line between this kind of jazz and that played by 
>> Ornette
>> Coleman, later Miles Davis, and John Coltrane is being just plain 
>> silly.
>>
>
> I would tend to agree with that statement Don, but I think the 
> original posts
> was simply asking where do we draw the line on OKOM , not Dixieland.  
> We all
> have different ideas about what OKOM is which is fine.
>
> In my opinion Coleman and Davis and Coltrane, all brilliant musicians 
> are the
> epitome of none swingers as of the way I personally define Swingers.  
> Highly
> musically educated musicians are often educated beyond their 
> intelligence, and
> certainly the musical intelligence of the average common man in the 
> audience.
>  This leaves them basically suited to perform and be appreciated almost
> exclusively by the academic set and musicians of their own ilk.   But 
> Swing, not
> from a Rope, :)
>
> Much of their music to the common audience sounds like continuous 
> stimulation
> with no idea how or when to ever let go and have that ever elusive 
> musical
> orgasm.  On the other hand the Real Swinging Musicians give the 
> audience the
> titillation in the first sixteen bars and then send em off into a 
> musical climax
> on the turn around.  :))
>
> I learned if you open strong and convincingly with a song and close 
> strong
> and convincingly it really does not matter much what you play in the 
> middle or
> doodling with solos.
>
>
> Some Dixieland Swings, and Some does not, some players play swinging
> Dixieland that does not swing because they cannot swing.  Simple as 
> that.  You either
> do or you don't and I don't care if you have a PHD in musicology and a 
> masters
> degree in Music if you can't Swing you can't Swing.  It is something 
> that
> comes from within those musicians blessed with the ability to do so.   
> I don't
> think you can teach a musician how to SWING, he has to feel it and 
> experiment
> until he or she can let loose all the technical inhibitions and play 
> the tunes
> from the heart with fire in their belly and not from the fake book or 
> carefully
> arranged charts.   Swinging is all about communicating with the 
> audience and
> the other musicians to create that great group musical orgasm.
>
> Now that ought to stimulate some interesting posts.  :)
>
> Running for cover, :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tom Wiggins
>
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