[Dixielandjazz] DIXIELAND FESTIVALS

[TCASHWIGG at aol.com]

In a message dated 8/5/04 4:36:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
williamhorton at peoplepc.com writes:

> Cees van den Heuvel said it loud and clear, in answer to all the
> criticism of tradjazz festivals from (mainly) those who don't get
> invited to play them.  His final statement, "in short: change the
> package, don't change the music!" sums it up well.
> 
> 

Cees Van den Heuvel with all due respect is in Holland which does not have a 
glut of wannabe Dixieland Bands like many cities in the USA.

Having toured there several times I can assure you that the Dixieland scene 
in Europe is far different from here in the USA or even in England which shares 
our common problem, too many bands good and bad and too little money and or 
fans to support the many so called Dixieland festivals.

What I don't understand is the lack of understanding on this list to the 
realities that keep getting stressed over and over everytime this subject comes 
up.   All of the festivals keep relying upon the TOURING AUDIENCE rather than 
the touring Bands.  With the advent of more Festivals they have dissipated and 
continually thinned their available audience of the old fans not to even 
mention the unfortunate realization that many of them have died and continue to do 
so every day.

What is so difficult to understand about those very obvious Facts?

Not to mention the audiences getting bored with the same bands every festival 
playing basically the same material, Lethargy has definitely set in with many 
bands who do not bother to change and upgrade arrangements or songs in their 
repertoire.

In actuality many bands have abandoned any professionalism they ever had and 
are content to just walk onto any stage anywhere and do the same old war 
horses because they have been getting away with it for years, and most of the folks 
who complained are dead and gone anyway, or worse abandoned the Dixieland 
Festivals for a different genre of Jazz.

Hence the bringing in of different genres of music to up the paid attendance 
numbers to pay the expenses that continue to go up every year in spite of the 
Traditionalist wanting the prices to remain at 1930 levels.

I hate it that my insurance goes up every year and gasoline prices go up 
every other week and hall and venue rentals go up and everything else.  But that 
is life nothing stays the same and everything will continue to go up.  
Unfortunately for most musicians who the audience is paying to see and hear the 
situation is not the same at least in the proportions of the other rising costs.

As for bands with Proven draw power, well when I see groups that have played 
the same festival for thirty years in a row, etc., it does not mean that they 
necessarily have the "DRAW POWER" that the Festival producers think they have, 
it rather means that the Festival no longer Promotes music and the Bands on 
the Bill as they may have done in the beginning.  American audiences have 
always been on a never ending quest for something new and things have certainly not 
changed much in that aspect over the past sixty years or better.  It is the 
life blood of any growing or successful Festival, by all means use the strong 
ones but bring in even more strong ones at least one a year and cull out the 
weaker ones until they come up to the quality and professional level of the 
PROVEN ones.

If a band has played ten years or more at an event and have not gotten any 
better then why the heck do you need them?  You don't, any act that can't pull 
it's cost at the box-office simply does not belong on the bill.   Even if they 
are your kid or girlfriend etc.


Smaller festivals, not monster ones like Sacto or San Diego, can invite
only a few bands (say 20), for economic and site limitations.  They
invite back a core of "regulars" who have proven their popularity, and
the balance must be bands they can afford, if they are to be profitable
or break-even. 

 They can't afford super expensive imports from Europe or
from thousands of miles away, or huge orchestras.  Yes, maybe those
expensive bands may attract enough more attendees to warrant their
inclusion, but the operative word is "maybe".

Well, if the European Festivals and Promoters had used that logic there would 
certainly not be any Dixieland or OKOM in Europe much less the proliferation 
of the music all over the world.  It's called professional research, find out 
everything you can about an act before you buy them, that is how the 
professional For Profit organizations do it and they learn how to hedge the bet to 
minimize their risk.  Most of them also do not have the luxury of Government 
Grants or sponsors to offset their costs like Non profit groups do, even though 
many of them still have not figured out how to use them or get them, or worse yet 
even tried.

They have to operate on the basis of credibility and accountability, do it 
wrong more than a couple of time and you are out of the business.  The 
Entertainment business is a HIGH RISK Business and unfortunately everyone still wants 
to be in Show Business.  Some aspect carry high risks and also potentially high 
profits but you must remember they also carry the high risk of high losses.  
It is not a game for the weak of heart or empty pockets, for those all too 
often misguided individuals it is often suicide.


I read, also, repeated advice about the festivals hiring expert
promoters, which advice is usually accompanied by snide comments about
the amateurism and/or clannishness of the current organizers.   Those
amateurs donate thousands of hours out of love for OKOM and provide fine
entertainment for thousands of fans, plus employment for hundreds of
musicians.   They deserve more than these snide dismissals. 

Please Bill Go back and read it again and this time take time to try and 
understand it and what was actually said.  Nobody dissed any volunteers, or 
downgraded their valuable contributions to any Festival, There were NO SNIDE REMARKS 
ABOUT ANY OF THEM so please stop reading and posting issues that do not exist 
into other people's posts.

 A festival
that shows a $5000 profit under amateur leadership MIGHT show a larger
profit if they paid a pro promoter $15,000, but they also might attract
a larger audience and lose $5000.   I doubt they would find a pro who
would guarantee a profit.

Not if they hired a real knowledgeable Pro promoter and followed directions 
for constructive and economical changes in their operations that usually would 
make them a higher profit from their own operations just in professional cost 
cutting and better utilization of their existing operation and wonderful group 
of volunteers.

No, they would not find a Pro who would guarantee them a profit, but they 
would find one who earns their money by being efficient and professional and take 
their profits from the NET PROFIT of the event as stated in the original 
Post.  That statement was meant to imply that a Professional Promoter was 
reasonably certain that there more than likely would be a NET PROFIT from the event 
hence their agreement to work against any such Net Profit.  It is called the 
incentive factor to make it work and fair compensation for the Pro when it does.  
Rather than a Thank you very much but we don't need you next year now.

   If you have never worked with a Professional Promoter than of course you 
would not know these things, so that snide remark is forgiven.

One thing IS guaranteed, though:  Bands who aren't invited to festivals
will be sour grapes about it.

Bill "Never a festival big shot" Horton  

Not so in every case at all again Bill, and I take that as a snide remark on 
behalf of all the groups that have been dutifully ignored in the business, not 
mine in particular, because we certainly are not losing any income by not 
working so called OKOM festivals, and we are and have been playing to more jazz 
music fans and audiences around the world than some of these OKOM festivals 
attract in a lifetime. 

  Are we arrogant? no, we are trying to show other musicians and wannabe 
promoters how it is done professionally to raise the standards of the music and 
the events to a more respectable and profitable level.  Too bad most of the 
amateur run festivals already think they know everything and don't take advantage 
of the free advice that has been forthcoming on this list for several years.

Do we have Sour Grapes?  Not at all, we live in the high rent district and 
drink fine wines because we did it professionally for forty years or more, it 
did not come from Santa Claus we worked for it and learned how to improve and 
get better at it over time.

   Some of us have employed and created jobs for Thousands of Musicians all 
over the world not just a small over controlled event in a small town stifling 
it's growth and or success for all involved to pacify the egos of a few well 
meaning volunteers with free badges to their private party.

Unfortunately these kind of situations will continue so long as professional 
musicians continue to be lazy enough to allow their business to be controlled 
by amateurs.

Now that is a SNIDE Remark even if it is True.

Cheers,
 and I sincerely hope you are enjoying your retirement from volunteerism, 
often a very thankless job.

I know, I retired from it forty years ago myself, it gets no respect or money 
for hard work.

Tom Wiggins