[Dixielandjazz] ODJB

[Mike Durham]

Tom: the late great Oran 'Hot Lips' Page always maintained the same thing, 
until he was given the blindfold test by one of the magazines (Downbeat?) 
and coudn't tell whether the men were white or black. They were all guys 
playing in the same late-swing style, so color was the only variable. But 
otherwise, are you saying there is some genetic factor involved here? And if 
so, what's the  difference? Do white guys lack the 'swing gene'? Dangerous 
territory, all that stuff about a natural sense of rhythm.......

Mike


>From: TCASHWIGG at aol.com
>To: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] ODJB
>Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:21:36 EST
>
>In a message dated 11/17/03 9:14:45 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>barbonestreet at earthlink.net writes:
>
> > There will always be different views, for example, about whether is was
> > Armstrong who fathered "swing" or somebody else. The main point to be
> > made is that the music is colorblind and when you hear it without seeing
> > who was playing, you cannot tell race, creed or religion of the player
> > with any certainty, except where certain stylists are readily
> > identifiable by the uniqueness of their sound.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Steve Barbone
> >
> >
>Seldom do we disagree, Steve, but to my ears, I hear differences in Black
>American Jazz and Blues players all the time and can usuallly tell a Black 
>Band
>when I hear it on the radio without knowing who they are or seeing them.   
>I
>guess it comes from working with them for so many years and being able to 
>hear
>and feel their musical accents.
>
>I also hear the difference in British, German and Dutch, and French and 
>other
>European bands as compared with Black American players.   Many of them are
>indeed great players, but the tones, and mannerisims and styles are 
>distinctly
>different to my ears.
>
>If this was not true I would not get constant requests for Black American
>musicians to come to Europe and play.   Obviously I am not the only one who 
>hears
>this.   I have in the past been chastised for bringing Black American Blues
>and Jazz singers to festivals with White players or even using European 
>bands
>to back them.
>
>There is indeed something unique about Black American Music that is
>distinguishable, just listen to the Preservation Hall Jazz Band, Kermit 
>Ruffins, any
>number of New Orleans Brass Bands  recordings side by side with most White
>Dixieland Bands recordings.
>
>This is why I seem to often have a hard time discussing Dixieland Music on
>the list and put my foot in my mouth far too often.
>
>I have always viewed Traditional Jazz as being Black American rooted music
>and Dixieland as predominately White Jazz, and there is nothing wrong with
>either.   Perhaps we all just get it confused when we try to put all Jazz 
>in the
>same box, and get it out of perspective.
>
>I certainly do not have the background or expertise of the majority of the
>players and historians on this list but I do know what I hear, and if I 
>have
>bought into the New Orleans MYTH about Jazz originating from Early Gospel, 
>Blues
>and Jazz of Blacks in the South then I shall reamina an outcast ont he
>Dixieland Purist list for sure.  Or at best be dismissed as a non believer 
>and true
>follower.   Well so be it.   But I hear a difference int he music almost
>immediately, unless the Black musicians are trying desperately to sound 
>White, as
>many of them have done thinking it was necessary to get employment.
>
>I dare say you can take any number of Black Musicians and have them play 
>with
>a white band and they will not sound Black, but take those same musicians 
>and
>put them into an all Black Band hired to play for a Black audience and you
>will hear a totally different sound.
>
>Many Black American musicians have been re-trained to play music the way 
>they
>think White folks want it to sound, but what they missed in most cases is
>that the White folks really want to hear it played the way they play it for 
>Black
>audiences.  At least in my experiences and opinion.
>
>Music written and arranged on sheet music is more than likely colorblind, 
>but
>the way it is played in my opinion is not.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Tom Wiggins
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