[Dixielandjazz] Re: Dixielandjazz Digest, Vol 7, Issue 64

[Stephen Barbone]

> "Brian Towers" <briantowers at email.msn.com> wrote (polite snip)

> I believe the point you are trying to make Steve, is that
> Bolden, Louis etc were extremely loud players within their bands. I find,
> however, your line of reasoning to be shaky.   There is a big difference
> between "loud" and strong" in my opinion, as Anton has already wisely
> pointed out.

No, that is not my point. I just said Louis's greatness was measured by "loud" and
"high" (among other things, in the original, post about measuring Louis with modern Jazz
players, or other trumpet players. That these were legitimate measurements. The
anecdotal evidence is, however, pretty strong that Louis blew loud and high when
challenged by Keppard, or Jabbo Smith etc., in cutting contests. And this is what made
him famous with both other musicians and the public. While he did play loudly in his
band, he was not blasting everyone away. The band played loud too. Kind of like, this is
how I play folks, keep up with me.

Roy Eldridge told a funny story about Louis' lip salve. Eldridge had been trying to blow
loud and high like Louis and was afraid of splitting his lip.  So he asked for and got
the formula from Armstrong. "Put that shit on my lips" said Eldridge "and I couldn't
play for a week."  He claimed it burned like hell.

I think many of us fail to realize that most trumpet players were trying to emulate
Armstrong in the 20s and 30s. Listen even to Berrigan and "I Can't Get Started" the debt
to Armstrong's "loud" and "high" is evident.

Problem is that like many posts, something gets taken out of context and a whole new set
of assumptions arises. All of a sudden folks start disputing how loud or how high Louis
played.

> Another point as regards trying to make comparisons between Armstrong and
> King Oliver and their relative strength or power.   At the time of the
> famous 1923 recordings, Joe Oliver was a "very old" 38 years of age -  in
> fact just 12 years later he had to give up playing due to losing his teeth
> and pyorrhoea.  While his playing on those early 1923 recordings was bloody
> marvellous, to put it mildly, I would have liked to have heard him a decade
> earlier, when he was a side-man with the Ory band and dubbed as the "King ",
> even though Freddy Keppard was also in his prime at that time.  By 1923 his
> chops were already weakening and this is one of the reasons he may have
> taken on a second cornet (Armstrong) to beef up the lead.

I agree completely. Would also add that his "marvelous" playing on those records is just
a shadow of what he was playing live in 1923. I would have liked to have heard that band
live at Lincoln Gardens then.

Cheers,
Steve

PS. Barbone Street is a loud band. That's the way we play. Louder than most other bands.
Why? Because trumpet and trombone are loud players. So the rest of us adjust. (We play
acoustically in most venues) Sometimes creates a problem for "Soft Volume" substitutes,
but that's the way we play. And based upon what I've heard and what I've read about
Armstrong, that's the way he and his bands played.