[Dixielandjazz] Re: Louis Armstrong was (Musical Versatility)

[Richard Broadie]

There's an old story about how the scientist tells God, we can now create
life and we don't need you anymore.  God says "How do you do it?"   The
scientist says we take dirt, mold it into a ...."  God interrupts him by
saying "Wait a minute, first you have to create dirt, and then I'll listen
to your claim!"

In jazz, Louis was very much like God.  He (and a few others) created the
"dirt" or building blocks that everyone else has since molded into different
musical life forms.   With out our first generation players, it's unlikely
we'd be playing anything more related to jazz than the meanderings of Kenny
G and others accused of playing "jazz."  In summary God bless Louis
Armstrong.    Just a thought.  Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stan Brager" <sbrager at socal.rr.com>
To: "john petters" <jpettjazz at btinternet.com>; "DJML"
<dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Re: Louis Armstrong was (Musical Versatility)


> I have to agree with Steve's statement. Certainly, contemporary trumpeters
> do play faster, cleaner, etc. than Louis Armstrong. However, we look at
> Armstrong with respect to where he was in terms of jazz - virtually at the
> beginning. Today's players are all standing on Louis' broad shoulders and
> have learned much from the advancements in jazz which came from the bell
of
> his horn.
>
> Taste is a matter of judgement. I happen to like Louis' taste in notes. I
> also like Clifford Brown's taste as well as much of Miles Davis'.
>
> However, most of today's trumpet players lack the creativity which Louis
> brought to jazz. They are better trained, have better instruments, and
> they've learned their lessons well. But they really haven't added anything
> new to jazz. When they fade from the spotlight, few will mourn what they
> brought to the table.
>
> They'll leave nothing behind to rival "West End Blues", "Muggles", "Potato
> Head Blues" and some of the other Louis Armstrong classics which will be
> revered as long as there is music.
>
> Few have.
>
> Stan
> Stan Brager
> Trombonist-in-Training
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
> From: "john petters" <jpettjazz at btinternet.com>
> To: "DJML" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 9:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Re: Louis Armstrong was (Musical Versatility)
>
>
> > Steve said
> > > It should be no surprise to us that every trumpeter in Jazz today
plays
> > better than Louis. Faster, cleaner, higher,
> > > more ideas.
> >
> > Boy are you on dodgy territory now Steve! Can you please supply a list
of
> > trumpeters who with more ideas? Since when has faster or higher been a
> > determining factor?
> > Louis stands head and shoulders above the lot. In terms of taste,
> phrasing,
> > timing, you name it. I hear nobody around anywhere that comes remotely
> near
> > it.
> > John Petters
> > Amateur Radio Station G3YPZ
> > www.traditional-jazz.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stephen Barbone" <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
> > To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 4:07 PM
> > Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Re: Musical Versatility
> >
> >
> > > Dennis, John, & List mates:
> > >
> > > Dixieland is polyphonic counterpoint. Virtually any tune can be
adapted
> to
> > that musical form. To attempt to defines it
> > > further leads to all sorts of disagreements as to what is "Dixieland".
> The
> > problem of appeal to younger audiences with
> > > "Dixieland" is that no new tunes are played by most Dixieland Bands
and
> > the older stuff just isn't relevant on it's
> > > own.
> > >
> > > The tunes I listed below in my post are not Rock & Roll. They are
> "modern
> > jazz tunes". Done by modern jazz performers
> > > such as Clifford Brown, Cannonball Adderly, Sonny Rollins et al. They
> > adapt very well to polyphonic counterpoint a/k/a
> > > Dixieland.
> > >
> > > I don't understand your point about "polluting the music". Jazz is,
and
> > always has been an evolving or changing art
> > > form. Dixieland was the first change from New Orleans Jazz. That's why
> we
> > get into rigid opinion differences about
> > > Preservation Halls version of jazz v. ODJB, and/or King Oliver.  Or
> > British Trad versus Condon style. And when a newer
> > > style gains favor, the older style does not disappear. It sticks
around.
> > The "integrity" of the music will always
> > > remain with those that preserve it. The future of the music is in the
> > hands of those who innovate it.
> > >
> > > One so called style is just as valid as the other and they all have
> their
> > fans. Absolutely nothing wrong with that as I
> > > see it. For example, Preservation Hall is rough? Well of course, so
was
> > ALL of N.O. Jazz in the beginning. Jazz trumpet
> > > did not evolve from an untrained musician to Arturo Sadoval in a year.
> It
> > took a century. So who is playing "N. O.
> > > Jazz" today? Preservation Hall, that's who. Like or not, that's up to
> the
> > listener, but the style is valid and pretty
> > > damn authentic for the most part.
> > >
> > > We should forget all that trash talk about a jazz muso saying he
> wouldn't
> > play there,  with those guys, bcause he
> > > didn't play with them when they were young, since they were no good
then
> > either. That's just BS, like Dizzy G and Louis
> > > A trash talking each other's music. BS, they were neighbors in Queens
> > County, NYC for many years and they were great
> > > friends. The trash talk was media hype, and now half the jazz fan
world
> > believes is as fact. Pure nonsense. (BTW I was
> > > there for that info, and got it straight from both of them in person)
> > >
> > . We might as well get used to it. The point, of course is that Louis
> > innovated Jazz in the beginning. He is
> > > THE FATHER. But you can bet the farm that he is proud of his sons who
> > surpass him.
> > >
> > > And what the heck is the wrong with playing a tune partly in 3/4 and
> then
> > shifting to 4/4.?  OK, have an opinion,
> > > that's fine, but to put it down as tasteless is, well, tasteless. Many
> > musos love to create some tension in 3/4 time
> > > and then release it via 4/4 time, or similar time changing devices to
> > effect the tension and release which is a basic
> > > musical fact of life in helping make a jazz tune say something.
> > >
> > > Check out Brubeck's works for examples of this. ("Pick Up Sticks") Or
> > check out "St Louis Blues" with it's shift from
> > > Latin Beat to Swing Beat etc. While Blowing Bubbles was played all the
> way
> > through in 3/4 by ODJB, Many current bands
> > > do not consider it mandatory to slavishly follow what ODJB did. That
> whole
> > style of music is hardly played at all
> > > today. Good as it may be, it did not stay popular very long then, and
is
> > not popular now. Better left to the
> > > "preservers".
> > >
> > > And yes, Sacramento has other musical genres than OKOM. Of course, it
> has
> > to do so in order to survive. It is no longer
> > > promoted as a Dixieland festival. However, there is enough Dixieland
> there
> > to keep the most dedicated fan from hearing
> > > other musical forms.
> > >
> > > I can understand that some Brits may not like certain US styles of
> > Dixieland, that's fine. After all, I can't stand
> > > British Trad. If there is ever to be any such thing as musical
polution,
> > it would get my vote. But that is one man's
> > > opinion and in the grand scheme of things, not worth a damn thing.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > > "john petters" <jpettjazz at btinternet.com> wrote (soice girl
corrected)
> > > >
> > > > Steve said
> > > >  >And for the College parties, we can also do "Mercy Mercy Mercy",
> "St.
> > > > Thomas", "Gerkin For
> > > > > Perkin", or "Jordu"  on the spot
> > > >
> > > > Steve I would query that the above is OKOM. It certainly is not
> > Dixieland. I
> > > > have always drawn the line at polluting a jazz gig with the
obnoxious
> > rock
> > > > beat. So my gigs are ALWAYS in jazz time (occasasionally 3/4 for a
> > chorus
> > > > before swinging). The trick is to adapt the material to the style of
> the
> > > > band, not the band to the style of the song. I have a recording of
the
> > Ory
> > > > Band at the Green Room playing a dance where they play Perdido. They
> do
> > not
> > > > sound like Duke - they sound like the Ory band. Their is a danger in
> > trying
> > > > to be all things to all men - the integrity of the music can become
> > > > compromised. End result The Spice Girls.
> > >
> > > > Then "Dennis Mowatt" <basousanjo at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote (soice girl
> > reference omitted)
> > > >
> > > > John,
> > > >
> > > > Having seen some of the bands at Sacramento recently, I was reminded
> of
> > > > Irish Showbands, who were very adept - they were required to be - at
> > playing
> > > > *ANYTHING* the punters wanted. This included the pops of the day
> > (including
> > > > the "Shadows' steps"; you remember?), Irish Ceile dance music,
> > quicksteps,
> > > > foxtrots, waltzes, oh, yes, and Dixieland Jazz, to name but a few.
> Just
> > as I
> > > > would query the jazz content of the Irish Showbands - which did
> contain
> > some
> > > > very fine jazz musicians - I query the jazz content of some of what
I
> > saw at
> > > > Sacramento. No, I refuse to "name names"!!
> > > >
> > > > If there is one thing I hate it is the playing of the first chorus
in
> > 3/4,
> > > > then "swinging it". To me that is the dregs of tastelessness. To
play,
> > for
> > > > example, "I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles", take a leaf from the book of
> the
> > > > ODJB and play it properly, in 3/4, all the way through!
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Dixielandjazz mailing list
> > > Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
> > > http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dixielandjazz mailing list
> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz