[Dixielandjazz] Re: Louis Armstrong was (Musical Versatility)

[Stan Brager]

I have to agree with Steve's statement. Certainly, contemporary trumpeters
do play faster, cleaner, etc. than Louis Armstrong. However, we look at
Armstrong with respect to where he was in terms of jazz - virtually at the
beginning. Today's players are all standing on Louis' broad shoulders and
have learned much from the advancements in jazz which came from the bell of
his horn.

Taste is a matter of judgement. I happen to like Louis' taste in notes. I
also like Clifford Brown's taste as well as much of Miles Davis'.

However, most of today's trumpet players lack the creativity which Louis
brought to jazz. They are better trained, have better instruments, and
they've learned their lessons well. But they really haven't added anything
new to jazz. When they fade from the spotlight, few will mourn what they
brought to the table.

They'll leave nothing behind to rival "West End Blues", "Muggles", "Potato
Head Blues" and some of the other Louis Armstrong classics which will be
revered as long as there is music.

Few have.

Stan
Stan Brager
Trombonist-in-Training

  ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "john petters" <jpettjazz at btinternet.com>
To: "DJML" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Re: Louis Armstrong was (Musical Versatility)


> Steve said
> > It should be no surprise to us that every trumpeter in Jazz today plays
> better than Louis. Faster, cleaner, higher,
> > more ideas.
>
> Boy are you on dodgy territory now Steve! Can you please supply a list of
> trumpeters who with more ideas? Since when has faster or higher been a
> determining factor?
> Louis stands head and shoulders above the lot. In terms of taste,
phrasing,
> timing, you name it. I hear nobody around anywhere that comes remotely
near
> it.
> John Petters
> Amateur Radio Station G3YPZ
> www.traditional-jazz.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen Barbone" <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
> To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 4:07 PM
> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Re: Musical Versatility
>
>
> > Dennis, John, & List mates:
> >
> > Dixieland is polyphonic counterpoint. Virtually any tune can be adapted
to
> that musical form. To attempt to defines it
> > further leads to all sorts of disagreements as to what is "Dixieland".
The
> problem of appeal to younger audiences with
> > "Dixieland" is that no new tunes are played by most Dixieland Bands and
> the older stuff just isn't relevant on it's
> > own.
> >
> > The tunes I listed below in my post are not Rock & Roll. They are
"modern
> jazz tunes". Done by modern jazz performers
> > such as Clifford Brown, Cannonball Adderly, Sonny Rollins et al. They
> adapt very well to polyphonic counterpoint a/k/a
> > Dixieland.
> >
> > I don't understand your point about "polluting the music". Jazz is, and
> always has been an evolving or changing art
> > form. Dixieland was the first change from New Orleans Jazz. That's why
we
> get into rigid opinion differences about
> > Preservation Halls version of jazz v. ODJB, and/or King Oliver.  Or
> British Trad versus Condon style. And when a newer
> > style gains favor, the older style does not disappear. It sticks around.
> The "integrity" of the music will always
> > remain with those that preserve it. The future of the music is in the
> hands of those who innovate it.
> >
> > One so called style is just as valid as the other and they all have
their
> fans. Absolutely nothing wrong with that as I
> > see it. For example, Preservation Hall is rough? Well of course, so was
> ALL of N.O. Jazz in the beginning. Jazz trumpet
> > did not evolve from an untrained musician to Arturo Sadoval in a year.
It
> took a century. So who is playing "N. O.
> > Jazz" today? Preservation Hall, that's who. Like or not, that's up to
the
> listener, but the style is valid and pretty
> > damn authentic for the most part.
> >
> > We should forget all that trash talk about a jazz muso saying he
wouldn't
> play there,  with those guys, bcause he
> > didn't play with them when they were young, since they were no good then
> either. That's just BS, like Dizzy G and Louis
> > A trash talking each other's music. BS, they were neighbors in Queens
> County, NYC for many years and they were great
> > friends. The trash talk was media hype, and now half the jazz fan world
> believes is as fact. Pure nonsense. (BTW I was
> > there for that info, and got it straight from both of them in person)
> >
> . We might as well get used to it. The point, of course is that Louis
> innovated Jazz in the beginning. He is
> > THE FATHER. But you can bet the farm that he is proud of his sons who
> surpass him.
> >
> > And what the heck is the wrong with playing a tune partly in 3/4 and
then
> shifting to 4/4.?  OK, have an opinion,
> > that's fine, but to put it down as tasteless is, well, tasteless. Many
> musos love to create some tension in 3/4 time
> > and then release it via 4/4 time, or similar time changing devices to
> effect the tension and release which is a basic
> > musical fact of life in helping make a jazz tune say something.
> >
> > Check out Brubeck's works for examples of this. ("Pick Up Sticks") Or
> check out "St Louis Blues" with it's shift from
> > Latin Beat to Swing Beat etc. While Blowing Bubbles was played all the
way
> through in 3/4 by ODJB, Many current bands
> > do not consider it mandatory to slavishly follow what ODJB did. That
whole
> style of music is hardly played at all
> > today. Good as it may be, it did not stay popular very long then, and is
> not popular now. Better left to the
> > "preservers".
> >
> > And yes, Sacramento has other musical genres than OKOM. Of course, it
has
> to do so in order to survive. It is no longer
> > promoted as a Dixieland festival. However, there is enough Dixieland
there
> to keep the most dedicated fan from hearing
> > other musical forms.
> >
> > I can understand that some Brits may not like certain US styles of
> Dixieland, that's fine. After all, I can't stand
> > British Trad. If there is ever to be any such thing as musical polution,
> it would get my vote. But that is one man's
> > opinion and in the grand scheme of things, not worth a damn thing.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Steve
> >
> > > "john petters" <jpettjazz at btinternet.com> wrote (soice girl corrected)
> > >
> > > Steve said
> > >  >And for the College parties, we can also do "Mercy Mercy Mercy",
"St.
> > > Thomas", "Gerkin For
> > > > Perkin", or "Jordu"  on the spot
> > >
> > > Steve I would query that the above is OKOM. It certainly is not
> Dixieland. I
> > > have always drawn the line at polluting a jazz gig with the obnoxious
> rock
> > > beat. So my gigs are ALWAYS in jazz time (occasasionally 3/4 for a
> chorus
> > > before swinging). The trick is to adapt the material to the style of
the
> > > band, not the band to the style of the song. I have a recording of the
> Ory
> > > Band at the Green Room playing a dance where they play Perdido. They
do
> not
> > > sound like Duke - they sound like the Ory band. Their is a danger in
> trying
> > > to be all things to all men - the integrity of the music can become
> > > compromised. End result The Spice Girls.
> >
> > > Then "Dennis Mowatt" <basousanjo at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote (soice girl
> reference omitted)
> > >
> > > John,
> > >
> > > Having seen some of the bands at Sacramento recently, I was reminded
of
> > > Irish Showbands, who were very adept - they were required to be - at
> playing
> > > *ANYTHING* the punters wanted. This included the pops of the day
> (including
> > > the "Shadows' steps"; you remember?), Irish Ceile dance music,
> quicksteps,
> > > foxtrots, waltzes, oh, yes, and Dixieland Jazz, to name but a few.
Just
> as I
> > > would query the jazz content of the Irish Showbands - which did
contain
> some
> > > very fine jazz musicians - I query the jazz content of some of what I
> saw at
> > > Sacramento. No, I refuse to "name names"!!
> > >
> > > If there is one thing I hate it is the playing of the first chorus in
> 3/4,
> > > then "swinging it". To me that is the dregs of tastelessness. To play,
> for
> > > example, "I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles", take a leaf from the book of
the
> > > ODJB and play it properly, in 3/4, all the way through!
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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