[Dixielandjazz] Re: Louis Armstrong was (Musical Versatility)

[john petters]

Steve said
> It should be no surprise to us that every trumpeter in Jazz today plays
better than Louis. Faster, cleaner, higher,
> more ideas.

Boy are you on dodgy territory now Steve! Can you please supply a list of
trumpeters who with more ideas? Since when has faster or higher been a
determining factor?
Louis stands head and shoulders above the lot. In terms of taste, phrasing,
timing, you name it. I hear nobody around anywhere that comes remotely near
it.
John Petters
Amateur Radio Station G3YPZ
www.traditional-jazz.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Barbone" <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 4:07 PM
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Re: Musical Versatility


> Dennis, John, & List mates:
>
> Dixieland is polyphonic counterpoint. Virtually any tune can be adapted to
that musical form. To attempt to defines it
> further leads to all sorts of disagreements as to what is "Dixieland". The
problem of appeal to younger audiences with
> "Dixieland" is that no new tunes are played by most Dixieland Bands and
the older stuff just isn't relevant on it's
> own.
>
> The tunes I listed below in my post are not Rock & Roll. They are "modern
jazz tunes". Done by modern jazz performers
> such as Clifford Brown, Cannonball Adderly, Sonny Rollins et al. They
adapt very well to polyphonic counterpoint a/k/a
> Dixieland.
>
> I don't understand your point about "polluting the music". Jazz is, and
always has been an evolving or changing art
> form. Dixieland was the first change from New Orleans Jazz. That's why we
get into rigid opinion differences about
> Preservation Halls version of jazz v. ODJB, and/or King Oliver.  Or
British Trad versus Condon style. And when a newer
> style gains favor, the older style does not disappear. It sticks around.
The "integrity" of the music will always
> remain with those that preserve it. The future of the music is in the
hands of those who innovate it.
>
> One so called style is just as valid as the other and they all have their
fans. Absolutely nothing wrong with that as I
> see it. For example, Preservation Hall is rough? Well of course, so was
ALL of N.O. Jazz in the beginning. Jazz trumpet
> did not evolve from an untrained musician to Arturo Sadoval in a year. It
took a century. So who is playing "N. O.
> Jazz" today? Preservation Hall, that's who. Like or not, that's up to the
listener, but the style is valid and pretty
> damn authentic for the most part.
>
> We should forget all that trash talk about a jazz muso saying he wouldn't
play there,  with those guys, bcause he
> didn't play with them when they were young, since they were no good then
either. That's just BS, like Dizzy G and Louis
> A trash talking each other's music. BS, they were neighbors in Queens
County, NYC for many years and they were great
> friends. The trash talk was media hype, and now half the jazz fan world
believes is as fact. Pure nonsense. (BTW I was
> there for that info, and got it straight from both of them in person)
>
. We might as well get used to it. The point, of course is that Louis
innovated Jazz in the beginning. He is
> THE FATHER. But you can bet the farm that he is proud of his sons who
surpass him.
>
> And what the heck is the wrong with playing a tune partly in 3/4 and then
shifting to 4/4.?  OK, have an opinion,
> that's fine, but to put it down as tasteless is, well, tasteless. Many
musos love to create some tension in 3/4 time
> and then release it via 4/4 time, or similar time changing devices to
effect the tension and release which is a basic
> musical fact of life in helping make a jazz tune say something.
>
> Check out Brubeck's works for examples of this. ("Pick Up Sticks") Or
check out "St Louis Blues" with it's shift from
> Latin Beat to Swing Beat etc. While Blowing Bubbles was played all the way
through in 3/4 by ODJB, Many current bands
> do not consider it mandatory to slavishly follow what ODJB did. That whole
style of music is hardly played at all
> today. Good as it may be, it did not stay popular very long then, and is
not popular now. Better left to the
> "preservers".
>
> And yes, Sacramento has other musical genres than OKOM. Of course, it has
to do so in order to survive. It is no longer
> promoted as a Dixieland festival. However, there is enough Dixieland there
to keep the most dedicated fan from hearing
> other musical forms.
>
> I can understand that some Brits may not like certain US styles of
Dixieland, that's fine. After all, I can't stand
> British Trad. If there is ever to be any such thing as musical polution,
it would get my vote. But that is one man's
> opinion and in the grand scheme of things, not worth a damn thing.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve
>
> > "john petters" <jpettjazz at btinternet.com> wrote (soice girl corrected)
> >
> > Steve said
> >  >And for the College parties, we can also do "Mercy Mercy Mercy", "St.
> > Thomas", "Gerkin For
> > > Perkin", or "Jordu"  on the spot
> >
> > Steve I would query that the above is OKOM. It certainly is not
Dixieland. I
> > have always drawn the line at polluting a jazz gig with the obnoxious
rock
> > beat. So my gigs are ALWAYS in jazz time (occasasionally 3/4 for a
chorus
> > before swinging). The trick is to adapt the material to the style of the
> > band, not the band to the style of the song. I have a recording of the
Ory
> > Band at the Green Room playing a dance where they play Perdido. They do
not
> > sound like Duke - they sound like the Ory band. Their is a danger in
trying
> > to be all things to all men - the integrity of the music can become
> > compromised. End result The Spice Girls.
>
> > Then "Dennis Mowatt" <basousanjo at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote (soice girl
reference omitted)
> >
> > John,
> >
> > Having seen some of the bands at Sacramento recently, I was reminded of
> > Irish Showbands, who were very adept - they were required to be - at
playing
> > *ANYTHING* the punters wanted. This included the pops of the day
(including
> > the "Shadows' steps"; you remember?), Irish Ceile dance music,
quicksteps,
> > foxtrots, waltzes, oh, yes, and Dixieland Jazz, to name but a few. Just
as I
> > would query the jazz content of the Irish Showbands - which did contain
some
> > very fine jazz musicians - I query the jazz content of some of what I
saw at
> > Sacramento. No, I refuse to "name names"!!
> >
> > If there is one thing I hate it is the playing of the first chorus in
3/4,
> > then "swinging it". To me that is the dregs of tastelessness. To play,
for
> > example, "I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles", take a leaf from the book of the
> > ODJB and play it properly, in 3/4, all the way through!
>
>
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