[Dixielandjazz] Chordal & Melodic Improvisation

[Patrick Cooke]

>>In other words, you can have jazz without improvisation.
I am not saying improvisation is not an important factor, but I am
maintaining that it is not paramount.<<

Brian:
If Louis did the original improvisation, I'd say he's allowed to play it
again.  It may not be on-the-spot improvisation, but it's still
improvisation.  I still say improvisation is what defines the music as jazz.
If not improvisation, what would you say is 'paramount'.
If you just played the original composer's straight melody all night, I
wouldn't call it jazz.
Pat Cooke

----- Original Message -----
From: "briantowers" <briantowers at msn.com>
To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Chordal & Melodic Improvisation


> Ron,
> You are trying to move the goal posts!
>
> In my example, by a sheer fluke, Louis was able to reproduce every note
and
> nuance exactly, the second time he played the number.  Highly unlikely, I
> agree, but this is a hypothetical situation which I am using to prove a
> point, namely that it is still jazz, even though the solo had been played
> before!   In other words, you can have jazz without improvisation.
> I am not saying improvisation is not an important factor, but I am
> maintaining that it is not paramount.
> Cheers,
> Brian Towers
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron L'Herault" <lherault at bu.edu>
> To: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:14 PM
> Subject: RE: [Dixielandjazz] Chordal & Melodic Improvisation
>
>
> > I doubt Louis would have played the exact same solo.  Even variations in
> > tonal color are improvisation and so it wouldn't take much for him to
> > change the solo, even minimally.  Besides, he created the solo.  It was
> > jazz when he created it and, if it were recorded and we played that
> > recording, it would be jazz each and every time we heard it.
> >
> > Ron L
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com
> > [mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] On Behalf Of briantowers
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 3:32 PM
> > To: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
> > Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Chordal & Melodic Improvisation
> >
> > I agree with Paul  that melody, harmony, rhythm and other factors rank
> > ahead
> > of "improvisation" as elements of jazz.   Here is a simple test:
> >
> > Louis Armstrong plays 'Cornet chop Suey" for the first time on Monday -
> > jazz
> > OK?
> >
> > He plays the same solo on Tuesday.  Now,  those that say improvisation
> > is
> > what defines jazz would have to say that Louis' Tuesday version of
> > "Cornet
> > Chop Suey" is not jazz, which I would consider to be nonsense!
> >
> > Q.E.D.
> >
> > Brian (this should get 'em going) Towers
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Edgerton, Paul A" <paul.edgerton at eds.com>
> > To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 2:58 PM
> > Subject: RE: [Dixielandjazz] Chordal & Melodic Improvisation
> >
> >
> > > >Improvisation is what defines the music as jazz.
> > >
> > > So you say, and that's a common point of view.
> > >
> > > The elements of music are melody, harmony and rhythm. An improviser
> > > typically draws on all of these in shaping his solos, but often one
> > element
> > > will predominate. In my opinion, rhythm is king. It's rhythm that
> > makes a
> > > thing recognizable as jazz, improvised or not.
> > >
> > > Paul Edgerton, who wonders, "Where does the time come from?"
> > >
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> > >
> >
> >
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