[Dixielandjazz] Chordal & Melodic Improvisation

[briantowers]

Ron,
You are trying to move the goal posts!

In my example, by a sheer fluke, Louis was able to reproduce every note and
nuance exactly, the second time he played the number.  Highly unlikely, I
agree, but this is a hypothetical situation which I am using to prove a
point, namely that it is still jazz, even though the solo had been played
before!   In other words, you can have jazz without improvisation.
I am not saying improvisation is not an important factor, but I am
maintaining that it is not paramount.
Cheers,
Brian Towers


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron L'Herault" <lherault at bu.edu>
To: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:14 PM
Subject: RE: [Dixielandjazz] Chordal & Melodic Improvisation


> I doubt Louis would have played the exact same solo.  Even variations in
> tonal color are improvisation and so it wouldn't take much for him to
> change the solo, even minimally.  Besides, he created the solo.  It was
> jazz when he created it and, if it were recorded and we played that
> recording, it would be jazz each and every time we heard it.
>
> Ron L
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com
> [mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] On Behalf Of briantowers
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 3:32 PM
> To: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Chordal & Melodic Improvisation
>
> I agree with Paul  that melody, harmony, rhythm and other factors rank
> ahead
> of "improvisation" as elements of jazz.   Here is a simple test:
>
> Louis Armstrong plays 'Cornet chop Suey" for the first time on Monday -
> jazz
> OK?
>
> He plays the same solo on Tuesday.  Now,  those that say improvisation
> is
> what defines jazz would have to say that Louis' Tuesday version of
> "Cornet
> Chop Suey" is not jazz, which I would consider to be nonsense!
>
> Q.E.D.
>
> Brian (this should get 'em going) Towers
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Edgerton, Paul A" <paul.edgerton at eds.com>
> To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 2:58 PM
> Subject: RE: [Dixielandjazz] Chordal & Melodic Improvisation
>
>
> > >Improvisation is what defines the music as jazz.
> >
> > So you say, and that's a common point of view.
> >
> > The elements of music are melody, harmony and rhythm. An improviser
> > typically draws on all of these in shaping his solos, but often one
> element
> > will predominate. In my opinion, rhythm is king. It's rhythm that
> makes a
> > thing recognizable as jazz, improvised or not.
> >
> > Paul Edgerton, who wonders, "Where does the time come from?"
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
>
>
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