[Dixielandjazz] Good tuba/double bass/electric bass

Ron L'Herault Ron L'Herault" <lherault@bu.edu
Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:14:33 -0400


Sorry, was not thinking of solos.

Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Cooke" <patcooke@cox.net>
To: "Ron L'Herault" <lherault@bu.edu>; "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List"
<dixielandjazz@ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Good tuba/double bass/electric bass


> Ron wrote:
>
> >>>Would you really want to do 16ths in OKOM even today?  Would that not
> clutter the space, making less space available for other instrumental
> statements as well as needlessly complicating the rhythmic framework?<<
>
>        When the horns are playing, I have enough sense to play straight
> rhythm, but occasionally I get a bass solo.
>          That's usually the signal for the horn players to "clutter the
> space" with conversation about ball games,  fishing, or crab grass.
>           Be that as it may, it's a brief opportunity for the bass player
to
> show off a little and play something besides straight 2/4 or 4/4.
>           Are you going to suggest how I play my solos?
>         That's when no one else should be making any "instrumental
> statements", and I'll complicate the rhythmic
> framework to the best of my ability.
>           Pat Cooke
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron L'Herault" <lherault@bu.edu>
> To: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz@ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 11:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Good tuba/double bass/electric bass
>
>
> > Would you really want to do 16ths in OKOM even today?  Would that not
> > clutter the space, making less space available for other instrumental
> > statements as well as needlessly complicating the rhythmic framework?
> >
> > Ron L
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Patrick Cooke" <patcooke@cox.net>
> > To: <Schnabbels@aol.com>; <dixielandjazz@ml.islandnet.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 12:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Good tuba/double bass/electric bass
> >
> >
> > > Rob van der Plas wrote:
> > >
> > > >>> technically, you can do more things on a Fender than on a double
> base:
> > > on an acoustic bass, you hear quarter, eighth, and occasionally triole
> > > notes. On a Fender you can do 16th. That is something you did not hear
> on
> > > the classic OKOM recordings from the past.<<<
> > >
> > > True...the only thing you can't do on a Fender is bow it.  Take away
the
> > > requirement for bowing, and you can build an instrument with more
> > pizzicato
> > > facility.  The curved bridge and fingerboard make the acoustic more
> > > cumbersome to pluck, especially on the bottom string, because you have
> to
> > > actually change the position of your hand to pluck it.
> > >         As for the OKOM recordings of the past, most of them were made
> > > before amplifiers were even available.   In order to be heard at all,
a
> > bass
> > > player had to have his strings set about 1/2 inch from the fingerboard
> so
> > he
> > > could really pull hard on them and avoid the string slapping back on
the
> > > fingerboard.  Needless to say, facility was severely limited.
> Amplifiers
> > > came into use around the end of the big-band swing era, when a bass
> player
> > > had to cut through 6 or 7 brass, plus a well equipped drummer. . The
> > > amplifier made it possible to lower the strings, and play, instead of
> > > fighting the instrument.
> > >          If you want to hear facility on acoustic bass, listen  to
some
> of
> > > the recordings of Neils Henning Orsted Pederson.  He made a lot of
> > > recordings with Oscar Peterson.  He has more facility on acoustic bass
> > than
> > > any one I have ever heard on ANY kind of bass.
> > >        Pat Cooke
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <Schnabbels@aol.com>
> > > To: <dixielandjazz@ml.islandnet.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:31 AM
> > > Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Good tuba/double bass/electric base
> > >
> > >
> > > > Listmates,
> > > >
> > > > Not all that long ago, someone on the list inquired about Dan
> Zeilinger
> > > (NOT:
> > > > Zielinger), that "very good tuba player". Let me tell you a little
> > story:
> > > > Maybe five or six years ago, Dan performed with a group at one of
the
> > > monthly
> > > > meetings of the Arizona Classic Jazz Society. With apologies to the
> band
> > > > members whose names I cannot recall, the band included George
Probert
> > and
> > > Jim
> > > > Mayhack as well as Dan. At the end of the gig I approached Dan to
> > > compliment
> > > > him on his tuba playing. Now, the last thing on my mind is to
> represent
> > > > myself as the judge and jury on the quality of tuba players, but
what
> > was
> > > so
> > > > appealing to me was that Dan played the tuba like a bass. Not the
> > staccato
> > > > pop-pop but rather sustained quarter notes as you would expect from
> good
> > > > doghouse players. I mentioned Phil Stephens during that
conversation.
> > > >
> > > > Unelegant segue: When I was 17 (40 + years ago), I lent my copy of
> > "Coast
> > > > Concert" to my trombone teacher (first trombone chair, The Hague
> > > > Philharmonic). When he returned to record to me his comments were:
> "That
> > > tuba
> > > > player is incredible". No comments about Hackett or anyone else!
> > > >
> > > > Another unelegant segue: Electric vs. acoustic (with or without
> > > > amplification) bass.
> > > > Admittedly, since we are all more or less products of first
> impressions,
> > I
> > > > have a propensity to prefer rhythm sections consisting of piano,
> double
> > > bass,
> > > > guitar and drums. Four-to-the bar in other words. I have the
distinct
> > > > pleasure of having the opportunity to sit in occasionally with
> listmate
> > > Joe
> > > > Hopkins' quartet who has secured two steady gigs here in the Phoenix
> > area
> > > > within the last couple of weeks. Gary Church usually plays either
> guitar
> >
> > > or
> > > > piano but when I play piano he switches to trumpet. And if another
> piano
> > > > player shows up (usually better than I, rats) I play trombone. Two
> weeks
> > > ago
> > > > we had an 8-piece band going, prompting Joe to announce that "the
rest
> > of
> > > the
> > > > band will show up later". Here is the thing: Danny Shannon plays a
> > Fender
> > > > bass in the quartet. Danny is a wonderful musician who knows every
> tune
> > in
> > > > whatever key. And he swings. I'll admit that, for awhile, I had some
> > > qualms
> > > > about the "appearance" of  a Fender bass in an OKOM band. It just
> didn't
> > > seem
> > > > to "belong". Perhaps that is still the trauma of the sixties when it
> > > seemed
> > > > that the Beatles et al. threatened to put us out of business.
> Meanwhile,
> > I
> > > am
> > > > having a lot of fun playing with an excellent Fender bass player. If
> > there
> > > is
> > > > anything that I still have to reconcile is the fact that,
technically,
> > you
> > > > can do more things on a Fender than on a double base: on an acoustic
> > bass,
> > > > you hear quarter, eighth, and occasionnally triole notes. On a
Fender
> > you
> > > can
> > > > do 16th. That is something you did not hear on the classic OKOM
> > recordings
> > > > from the past.
> > > >
> > > > Thank for indulging me,
> > > >
> > > > Rob van der Plas
> > > > Scottsdale, AZ
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> >
> >
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