[Dixielandjazz] Re: Jazz Popular?/Mainstream

[D and R Hardie]

Dear Fred,
                 I did not suggest that the style
originated in Australia, merely that the term
Mainstream was used by some musicians here to
describe their  middle of the road music.Its not a
myth I would want to perpetuate. I don't think
they had it in them to invent anything, and they
probably got the word, like everything else they
did,  from a US source, most likely from a local
journalist aping US counterparts. It gave them an
acceptable platform in between the 'really square'
and the 'truly hip'. I would have thought the
timing was late 1940's to early fifties, fairly
late in the bop era.  Australian jazz, whether  up
to date or truly ancient, is fundamentally
derivitive.

 regards Dan Hardie
 Check Out the Early Jazz History site at:
 http://members.ozemail.com.au/~darnhard/EarlyJazzHistory.html

fred spencer wrote:

> Dan,
> Several jazz scholars say that "Mainstream" was
> coined by Stanley Dance
> in the 1950s (e.g. Peter Clayton and Peter
> Gammond, "TheGuinness Jazz
> Companion", and Barry Kernfeld, "New Grove
> Dictionary of Jazz"). Do you
> have some documentation to support your
> statement that the "style"
> originated in Australia in the 1940s? If so,
> this should be broadcast
> throughout the jazz world as it would dispel
> another jazz myth. Best
> wishes.
> Fred
>
> D and R Hardie wrote:
>
> > Hi all.
> >                   I had begun to wonder where 
> the
> > list was going with all this remote  stuff,
> > until   someone questioned whether  jazz had
> ever
> > been popular. Of course, jazz was the pop
> music of
> > the roaring twenties; one commentator
> reporting
> > that  there were over 10000 jazz bands in the
> US
> > in that decade. It was also hugely popular in
> > Britain and Europe at that time. Scott
> Fitzgerald
> > called it the Jazz Age, saying it began with
> the
> > introduction of Prohibition in 1919 and ended
> with
> > the Stock Market Crash of 1929. The pop
> audience
> > of the thirties and forties were  then
> introduced
> > to Swing and thought the earlier music  out of
>
> > date -'square' they called it . Most of them
> were
> > probably  never really conscious that Swing
> was a
> > form of jazz, or at least its descendant.
> >                   Perhaps it is not important
> for
> > the young to have a sense of history. But if
> we
> > are to understand the meaning of terms like
> > Classic Jazz or Mainstream Jazz some
> historical
> > perspective would seem to be needed. The
> latter
> > term was used in Australia by followers of the
>
> > 1940's Chicago Style to differentiate their
> > somewhat 'progressive'  music from that of the
>
> > revivalist bands  who were imitating 
> recordings
> > by Bunk Johnson and the Classic 1920's jazz
> bands
> > of  King Oliver and Jelly Roll Morton .  It
> seems
> > it may have  have had a broader meaning
> elsewhere.
> > Adulation, including the adoration of Louis
> > Armstrong, seems to have been generational
> too,
> > some fans cling to their idols  on until old
> age.
> > My father adored the Jazz Singer.  Miles Davis
>
> > music is not MKOM but I suppose its a type of
> > modern jazz..
> > Regards
> > Dan Hardie
> > Check Out the Early Jazz History site at:
> >
> http://members.ozemail.com.au/~darnhard/EarlyJazzHistory.html
>
> >
> > briantowers wrote:
> >
> > > Personally I find his playing a total bore. 
> My
> > > ears hear a weak skinny
> > > tone;  little rhythm; no humour or fun.
> > > Mournful, whining self-conscious stuff -
> > > absolutely none of the essential
> > > ingredients and nothing to do with jazz as I
>
> > > know it - the music of
> > > Armstrong, Morton, Oliver, Waller and
> company.
> > > The seemingly mindless
> > > adulation he enjoys always puzzles me.
> > >
> > > But that is just my opinion.  Millions of
> people
> > > out there think it is jazz
> > > and think it is great.  To each his own.
> > >
> > > A Happy New Year to Everyone!
> > > Brian Towers,
> > > Hot Five Jazzmakers, Toronto, Canada
> > > Band web site:
> > > http://hotfivejazz.tripod.com
> > > Newsletter:
> > > http://hotfivejazz.tripod.com/TJM
> > > New Year's Eve Bash:
> > > http://hotfivejazz.tripod.com/nye
> > >
> > > Ted Wrote:
> > >
> > > > Does the list not like Miles Davis?- he is
> not
> > > OKOM but is a great jazz
> > > > player with few notes-Ted Borodofsky
> > > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
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