[Dixielandjazz] Roy Eldridge followed Louis Armstrong?

[Paul Kurtz Jr]

Marek, I’ve now listened to some of what you mentioned and am, like you, in a bit of a puzzle. It could have been improv or it could have been planned. But, what I’ve sort-of settle my mind on is that whether a person plays an improv with pre-written music where he/she creates the improv and writes it down or whether they create it in their heads, it’s still their creation. So, in my mind, I give similar creative credit. 
Paul Kurtz Jacksonville, FL
> On Apr 12, 2017, at 9:23 AM, Marek Boym <marekboym at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Difficult to know whether a musician really improvises or plays things carefully planned in advance.  James often sounded as if he were improvising.  Listen, for example, to his recordings with the Boogie Woogie trio.  I cannot be sure, but I believe that his solos on the various BG records sound different from performance to performance.
> Cheers
> 
> On 12 April 2017 at 16:05, Paul Kurtz Jr <phktrumpet at gmail.com> wrote:
> One of the biggest benefits I see in the stretching of discussions on this list is that we can analyze jazz and see how it can stretch and fit into today’s environment more than it is. One example is some of the Bluegrassers and rock and rollers putting dixieland and other forms of jazz into their music. Del Mccurry playing material with the Preservation Hall is one example. I bought the song set and have enjoyed it. No, I didn’t spell Del’s last name correctly, but you guys can find it.
> 
> The brass quintets using Dixieland is another very fruitful area such as material done by the Canadian Brass. Many other brass groups have produced good music in this area, too.
> 
> Why do I look for many of these crossovers? Simply because, as a musician looking at getting gigs, the farther I can spread, the better and the more likely I’ll find things on my little semi-professional level.
> 
> The other thing that these wider-ranging discussions do is to get into a deeper analysis of jazz, chords, and where improv starts and stops. I was listening to a Gene Krupa and Harry James song set last night and thinking how close some of his playing was to bebop in certain songs. I’m not a lover of bop necessarily, but I am a lover of Harry James and I think he’s been improperly criticized for not being able to improvise. Even a person who writes out their improvisations so they can save them for the future is still improvising because they’re creating something where nothing was before.
> 
> These are just a few thoughts stimulated by the recent discussion because Miles took those chords in some unexpected directions.
> Paul Kurtz Jacksonville, FL
> > On Apr 12, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Charles Suhor <csuhor at zebra.net> wrote:
> >
> > Fuzzy, I concur with your view about the “two DJMLs.”  We don’t have as many robust exchanges here as we did earlier. When I went to the “new” list quite some time ago, I didn’t find much discussion there and didn’t feel I had time for the video links. I haven’t returned. Maybe someone else on this list who stayed with the other can tell us more.
> >
> > I don’t know you, but I admire your temperate, frank, and wise comments on this topic.
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> > On Apr 11, 2017, at 10:39 PM, Fuzzy <fuzzymail at fuzzyjazz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Charles,
> >>
> >> I agree whole-heartedly that such discussions are fun.  I’ve really enjoyed reading through this line of posts about Miles.  Having said that, it didn’t surprise me that hackles might have been raised a bit when various opinions were stated on one side or the other.
> >>
> >> I sure miss the old activity on this list.  I’m still relatively “new” to the list, but I remember what it was like prior to the Facebook group being created.  I miss the discussions here.  Prior to finding my Facebook account terminated by Facebook, I even checked into the non-original-djml Facebook group once or twice.  (I realize that we sort of have a Dukes of Dixieland vs Real Dukes of Dixieland thing going on here – so I want to draw a distinction between the two different DJML groups).  However, the Facebook group didn’t really seem to have much discussion.  It looked like people were sharing lots of video links, etc., (which was neat) but it didn’t appear to have much discussion going on…perhaps I didn’t visit often enough to see the discussions?
> >>
> >> Regardless, I had/have come to appreciate all the various viewpoints in this original DJML and have learned so much from just about every person on the list.  (Or should I say, “…every personality on the list”?)  I miss the old traffic and posts.  I miss the various personalities, and the great discussions about music.  Now, I appreciate seeing the lead sheet requests come through – as I’ve been exposed to a handful of new-to-me titles which I’ve had to look up.
> >>
> >> At any rate – best wishes to all of you great music-lovers out there.  I look forward to any future installments to the list.
> >>
> >> Fuzzy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Charles Suhor [mailto:csuhor at zebra.net]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 8:08 PM
> >> To: Fuzzy
> >> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
> >> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Roy Eldridge followed Louis Armstrong?
> >>
> >> Good analogy, Fuzzy. And legitimate, in so far as we know what “DJML” stands for as title of the list. And though  “OKOM” doesn’t stand for “Omnivore Kind of Music,” I think it’s healthy to have some tangential discussions. I probably started the Miles strand when it was said (and latter retracted, happily) that those who dig Miles aren’t jazz fans. The ensuing result might disappoint many but it revealed that some of us find such an exchange valuable. I wish that more of the OKOM posts went beyond informational, thematically correct but insider matters-- lead sheets, discographical questions, where-my-band-will-be next week, etc. What disappoints me is the relative lack of substantive activity about OKOM. My memory, admittedly undependable at this point, is that earlier there were more idea-ful discussions.
> >>
> >> Charlie
> >>
> >>> On Apr 11, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Fuzzy <fuzzymail at fuzzyjazz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> It’s great to see activity on the DJML again!  However, this current conversation about Miles leaves me thinking a thought I often have while listening to “early jazz” radio programs:
> >>>
> >>> It’s like going to the store and seeing paper bags labeled, “Apples: $10 per bag.”
> >>>
> >>> You buy a bag of apples, but get home only to find the bag is full of pears instead of apples.  It doesn’t mean the pears are bad…just that you were expecting to enjoy some apples.  Maybe you can find some enjoyment in the pears, but then again, maybe you hate pears.  The view will vary depending on individual taste.
> >>>
> >>> Likewise, when a listener/participant of a radio show (or mailing list) is listening/participating due to the topic of early jazz – I think some amount of disappointment is to be expected (from some) when non-early-jazz is shared/discussed.  It’s not necessarily that the music/topic is bad – just not what is expected or necessarily shared in appreciation at the same level as early jazz.
> >>>
> >>> Warmest Regards,
> >>> Fuzzy
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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