[Dixielandjazz] New Trombones [WARNING: SPF validation unavailable]

Mon Mar 16 18:47:04 PDT 2015

Tim,

I would be a "fake" clarinet player. I started on it in 1956 but realised
there was a saxophone player in me trying to escape! So I bought a tenor as
soon as I could afford it (being an impecunious student at that time.) I
played tenor for years (and doubled on soprano) until about three years ago
when the sound of the alto appealed to me overwhelmingly. A Road to
Damascus moment!
Re your remarks about being able to tell when someone playing a saxophone
is really a clarinet player, Benny Goodman reckoned that Artie Shaw sounded
like a sax player playing clarinet!
I'm intrigued that you describe the Conn sopranos as more gentle than
modern ones. I must look out for one!
Incidentally, I spent some years up to 2006 as District Veterinary Officer
of South Gippsland and was part of the Jazz Society. Grand times!

Regards,

Joe.
.

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Shaw, Tim <Tim.Shaw at mh.org.au> wrote:

> Thanks for your comments, Joe.
>
> I’m a “fake” sax player – main instrument has always been clarinet. I
> think the embouchure that clarinettists use is a lot different as well as
> the air control.
>
> I think I can nearly always pick a sax players who play clarinet as second
> instrument (likewise they can probably spot fakers like me).
>
> I have a “modern” Buescher (Super 400 c 1975; large bore) which plays like
> a different instrument compared to my 1927 vintage model (the latter’s a
> lot better constructed I think).
>
> I also have a c. 1920 vintage conn Soprano which is totally different to
> modern instruments in sound –(more gentile – to borrow  your description –
> I think.
>
> tim
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Joe Carbery [mailto:joe.carbery at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 17 March, 2015 12:06 PM
> *To:* Shaw, Tim
> *Cc:* Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [Dixielandjazz] New Trombones [WARNING: SPF validation
> unavailable]
>
>
>
> Re Tim Shaw'a comments:
>
> I play a 1922 Conn New Wonder alto saxophone using a Conn "Standard
> Steelay" mouthpiece of roughly the same era. I find no problems with
> intonation and the projection is excellent, not boxy or stifled as Tim
> seems to find. I wonder if the sound on the early recordings wasn't due to
> recording techniques rather than the horns used. Incidentally, I also have
> a Buescher Trutone alto from the '20s and find its tone a lot more
> "gentile" and intimate than the Conn when played with the same mouthpiece.
>
> Joe Carbery.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Shaw, Tim <Tim.Shaw at mh.org.au> wrote:
>
>
> Interesting discussion about new/old brass.
> The same goes for reed instruments, especially saxophones, I think.
> Pre- c.1933 saxes are almost like a different instrument compared to
> modern saxophones.
>  Lots of us who are trying to get an authentically vintage sound have
> opted for vintage instruments.
>  I think they were generally  better made, with narrower bores and heavier
> metal and project better.
> The downside  seems to be tuning. They are much harder to play in tune -
> almost impossible with modern mouthpieces.
> -But vintage (conical bore) mouthpieces are usually too close & give a
> stifled, boxy sound (amply evident from lots of pre-30s recordings,
> especially white bands).
> Makes me wonder how the early sax greats managed to play with such
> control, good tone & volume.
> No matter what mouthpiece I use I can't play my 1927 Beuscher tenor in
> tune without a lot of "lipping" especially in upper register  - but I
> notice that novice players in my sons' high school band  play amazingly
> well in tune using modern Yamaha saxes.
> But they can't bend notes and are mostly profoundly clueless about how to
> construct solos, use vibrato, produce a "personal, sound or to project over
> the band .
> Due, I think, mainly to the wider bores of modern instruments - easier to
> play in tune, but more homogeneous, less personal sound.
> Interested to know what others think (Any clues about how to handle
> pre-1930s tenors welcome)
> Cheers
> Tim Shaw
> Melbourne, Oz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dixielandjazz [mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] On
> Behalf Of Brian Gail
> Sent: Monday, 16 March, 2015 12:34 PM
> To: Shaw, Tim
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] New Trombones [WARNING: SPF validation
> unavailable]
>
>
>
>    Interesting reading Jim  and James   comments on new trombones  . When
> it comes to instruments I am just the opposite
>    I love old instruments  and not being a trombone player, but a cornet
> and or trumpet player maybe its less of a problem
>    At present   I play a 1932 Bb Boosey cornet that I have had for 30 odd
> years and whenever I have been playing it I always get
>    by people what instrument I  play because it has great projection ,
>  indeed  musician friends have asked me to give them
>    first offer on it if ever I  want to sell it , I currently also have
> recently acquired a 1924   Conn Victor 80A    that   I am impressed with.
>   and have had Yamaha,s  Besson   King and,    Silversonic,sand most of
> them sounded pretty good depending on what mouthpiece
>   I used.
>     I saw an interview with  Zoot Sims  and when  as asked  what
> instrument he was playing and his reply was it was an old Selmer he had
> picked up
>    and he tapped the side of it and said it had great metal in it.
>
>     I also know a lot depends on the mouthpiece one uses , not like when
> I  first joined a Brass Band we all played with the mouthpiece
>    that came with the instrument , no one ever spoke about  Backbores
>  Rim sizes or Cup depth.
>    I wouldn't knock   playing a new instrument and when a few years back
> I    blew a new   Bach I found it effortless to blow.
>   and guess if I  was 30 years younger I probably would get a new model as
> well.
>
>   B C GEOGHAN
> .
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