[Dixielandjazz] New Trombones [WARNING: SPF validation unavailable]

Mon Mar 16 18:31:24 PDT 2015

Thanks for your comments, Joe.
I’m a “fake” sax player – main instrument has always been clarinet. I think the embouchure that clarinettists use is a lot different as well as the air control.
I think I can nearly always pick a sax players who play clarinet as second instrument (likewise they can probably spot fakers like me).
I have a “modern” Buescher (Super 400 c 1975; large bore) which plays like a different instrument compared to my 1927 vintage model (the latter’s a lot better constructed I think).
I also have a c. 1920 vintage conn Soprano which is totally different to modern instruments in sound –(more gentile – to borrow  your description – I think.
tim

From: Joe Carbery [mailto:joe.carbery at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 17 March, 2015 12:06 PM
To: Shaw, Tim
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] New Trombones [WARNING: SPF validation unavailable]

Re Tim Shaw'a comments:
I play a 1922 Conn New Wonder alto saxophone using a Conn "Standard Steelay" mouthpiece of roughly the same era. I find no problems with intonation and the projection is excellent, not boxy or stifled as Tim seems to find. I wonder if the sound on the early recordings wasn't due to recording techniques rather than the horns used. Incidentally, I also have a Buescher Trutone alto from the '20s and find its tone a lot more "gentile" and intimate than the Conn when played with the same mouthpiece.
Joe Carbery.

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Shaw, Tim <Tim.Shaw at mh.org.au<mailto:Tim.Shaw at mh.org.au>> wrote:

Interesting discussion about new/old brass.
The same goes for reed instruments, especially saxophones, I think.
Pre- c.1933 saxes are almost like a different instrument compared to modern saxophones.
 Lots of us who are trying to get an authentically vintage sound have opted for vintage instruments.
 I think they were generally  better made, with narrower bores and heavier metal and project better.
The downside  seems to be tuning. They are much harder to play in tune - almost impossible with modern mouthpieces.
-But vintage (conical bore) mouthpieces are usually too close & give a stifled, boxy sound (amply evident from lots of pre-30s recordings, especially white bands).
Makes me wonder how the early sax greats managed to play with such control, good tone & volume.
No matter what mouthpiece I use I can't play my 1927 Beuscher tenor in tune without a lot of "lipping" especially in upper register  - but I notice that novice players in my sons' high school band  play amazingly well in tune using modern Yamaha saxes.
But they can't bend notes and are mostly profoundly clueless about how to construct solos, use vibrato, produce a "personal, sound or to project over the band .
Due, I think, mainly to the wider bores of modern instruments - easier to play in tune, but more homogeneous, less personal sound.
Interested to know what others think (Any clues about how to handle pre-1930s tenors welcome)
Cheers
Tim Shaw
Melbourne, Oz

-----Original Message-----
From: Dixielandjazz [mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com<mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com>] On Behalf Of Brian Gail
Sent: Monday, 16 March, 2015 12:34 PM
To: Shaw, Tim
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] New Trombones [WARNING: SPF validation unavailable]

   Interesting reading Jim  and James   comments on new trombones  . When it comes to instruments I am just the opposite
   I love old instruments  and not being a trombone player, but a cornet  and or trumpet player maybe its less of a problem
   At present   I play a 1932 Bb Boosey cornet that I have had for 30 odd years and whenever I have been playing it I always get
   by people what instrument I  play because it has great projection ,   indeed  musician friends have asked me to give them
   first offer on it if ever I  want to sell it , I currently also have recently acquired a 1924   Conn Victor 80A    that   I am impressed with.
  and have had Yamaha,s  Besson   King and,    Silversonic,sand most of them sounded pretty good depending on what mouthpiece
  I used.
    I saw an interview with  Zoot Sims  and when  as asked  what instrument he was playing and his reply was it was an old Selmer he had picked up
   and he tapped the side of it and said it had great metal in it.

    I also know a lot depends on the mouthpiece one uses , not like when I  first joined a Brass Band we all played with the mouthpiece
   that came with the instrument , no one ever spoke about  Backbores   Rim sizes or Cup depth.
   I wouldn't knock   playing a new instrument and when a few years back I    blew a new   Bach I found it effortless to blow.
  and guess if I  was 30 years younger I probably would get a new model as well.

  B C GEOGHAN
.
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