[Dixielandjazz] Let's end the Clifford strand

Tue Apr 28 11:45:01 PDT 2015

I agree, Bob. I meant to generate discussion with the Clifford comments and recording. It  worked, but then it went from articulate disagreement toward a spittin' contest that's beyond the usual courtesy of the list. I apologize if I was rude in the strand. I sign off with this Coda...

Po-TAY-to, Po-TAH-to

To-MAY-to, To-MAH-to

Noo-AWL-yuns,  NEU-or-LEENS

Clifford-- GENIUS,  Clifford-- HACK

I lean to the left on all the above.

Charlie

On Apr 28, 2015, at 12:00 PM, Robert Ringwald wrote:

> OK guys,
> 
> I didn't see the email that Marek is responding to here. Perhaps it was sent to him off-list?
> 
> At any rate, this is getting a bit over the polite line that DJML is noted for.
> 
> Please remember that DJML is a friendly List and that the Jazz community is small. We don't need to insult each other and have hard feelings.
> 
> We can discuss Jazz without getting insulting.
> 
> So let's all step back, take a deep breath and put a CD or LP on of our preference and go on to something else. I think this topic has been beat enough.
> 
> -Bob Ringwald
> DJML Moderator
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Marek Boym
> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 8:15 AM
> To: Bob Ringwald
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Tram - Clifford Brown
> 
> On 28 April 2015 at 17:56, Steve Voce <stevevoce at virginmedia.com> wrote:
> 
>> So,Marek, you just scatter a random handful of insults around ( thank you
>> for omitting my treasured Miles Davis) and hope to walk away.
>> 
> 
> I didn't realize that not playing jazz was an insult.  And as to walking
> away - since this is a Dixieland Jazz list, I consider the whole thread off
> topic.
> 
> 
> 
>> Fortunately for you, you have no trouble finding people to insult because
>> your knowledge of jazz is so limited that you hate 95 per cent of its
>> musicians.
> 
> 
> 
> You may say whatever you please, but my knowledge of jazz is quite
> extensive, including, unfortunately, musicians who purported to play jazz.
> I certainly hope not to need to hear them again!
> 
> 
>> And of course you don't let your ignorance of what they do or how they
>> play prevent you from being rude about them.
>> 
> 
> I did not realize that saying a person didn't play jazz was rude.  Unlike
> attribution of ignorance.
> 
> 
>> Your knowledge of jazz seems to be infantile (I hate to think of what
>> these much-vaunted 'live' sessions that you are always going on about must
>> be like). I feel that your knowledge of music in general must be juvenile.
>> And I hate how you manage all the time to draw me in with your idiotic
>> statements!
>> 
> 
> I do not draw you - you like to be "drawn!"  Conceit is not a great
> intellectual advantage.  The sessions I attend are traditional jazz.  not
> the kind which some people insist on calling jazz.
> 
> OK. Now, as far as I'm concerned, you CAN walk away.
>> 
> 
> Thank you fro being so kind!
> 
> Cheers
> 
>> 
>> Steve Voce
>> 
>> 
>> > On 28 Apr 2015, at 15:07, Marek Boym <marekboym at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello Stan,
>> > Had you followed the entire thread, you would have read that I had the
>> > misfortune to hear them all, including Coltrane, Hubbard, Ornette
>> Coleman -
>> > tho whole lot.
>> > Anyway, it seems time to end this very much OT discussion.
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> >> On 28 April 2015 at 07:22, Stan Brager <sbrager at verizon.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Marek;
>> >>
>> >> When you state that you do not consider [Clifford] Brown a* jazz*
>> >> musician, I can only assume that you're familiar with the form of jazz
>> >> which Brown plays. That you've critically listened to and studied  to
>> >> some degree that particular genre. If that's true, then I can accept
>> your
>> >> personal feelings of Brown's music.
>> >>
>> >> If that isn't true, then how can you possibly consider whether or not
>> >> Brown is a jazz musician?
>> >>
>> >> Stan
>> >>
>> >> Stan Brager
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Marek Boym [mailto:marekboym at gmail.com <marekboym at gmail.com>]
>> >> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 7:00 AM
>> >> To: Robert Ringwald
>> >> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
>> >> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Tram - Clifford Brown
>> >>
>> >>> Brown is beyond the scope - I do not consider Brown a jazz musician.
>> >>
>> >>> (Snip)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Dear Marek,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> If Brown is not a Jazz musician, what is he?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> He is most sirtenly a great Jazz musician. He may not play in the
>> >>
>> >>> style you like, but to deny that he is a Jazz musician is ridiculous.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Perhaps it is ridiculous - not to my ears.  I have always found his
>> music
>> >> boring.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> -Bob Ringwald
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >>
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>> >>
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>> >
>> >
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