[Dixielandjazz] Dixielandjazz Digest, Vol 142, Issue 1 re lyrics Black and blue
Lindsay Meech
lindsay.meech2012 at gmail.com
Wed Oct 1 13:59:01 PDT 2014
On a cd by the late British trumpeter Keith Smith on his label Hefty Jazz called "Forty years On "he does Black and Blue but on the sleeve notes calls it Lonesome and Blue with Black and Blue in brackets and fully acknowledging the composers but with slightly altered words,to suit a white singer.
I don't think anyone could replace the real words but I guess Keith felt more comfortable with his adaptation.Incidentally Acker Bilk is on some tracks.
Lindsay Meech
Auckland New Zealand.
Sent from my iPad
> On 2/10/2014, at 8:00 am, dixielandjazz-request at ml.islandnet.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Looking for lyric (Richard Parks)
> 2. Re: Looking for lyric (alevy at alevy.com)
> 3. Re: Ross In Melbourne (Ross Anderson)
> 4. For Dave Hanson (Jim Kashishian)
> 5. Passed away (Gerard Bielderman)
> 6. Re: Passed away (Marek Boym)
> 7. "Black and Blue" lyric (Richard Parks)
> 8. Re: "Black and Blue" lyric (Gary Lawrence Murphy)
> 9. FW: "Black and Blue" lyric (Jim Kashishian)
> 10. Re: FW: "Black and Blue" lyric (Gary Lawrence Murphy)
> 11. Re: FW: "Black and Blue" lyric (Ric Giorgi)
> 12. Re: Passed away (Robert Ringwald)
> 13. Re: "Black and Blue" lyric (Robert Ringwald)
> 14. Re: "Black and Blue" lyric (Robert Ringwald)
> 15. Re: FW: "Black and Blue" lyric (Charles Suhor)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:34:54 -0700
> From: Richard Parks <dparks999 at verizon.net>
> To: "dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Looking for lyric
> Message-ID:
> <1412109294.6705.YahooMailNeo at web142606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Has anyone ever found lyric to "Black and Blue" that a white guy could sing without looking like a complete dork?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 19:02:17 -0500
> From: <alevy at alevy.com>
> To: "Richard Parks" <dparks999 at verizon.net>
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Looking for lyric
> Message-ID: <000701cfdd0a$f70a69e0$0200000a at hsd1.tx.comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Richard.
> You wrote:
> Has anyone ever found lyric to "Black and Blue" that a white guy could sing
> without looking like a complete dork?
> ============================
> Frankie Laine sank. He's no dork.
> Here's a link
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE01AvAUmAk
> Cheers,
> Al
> Pianist, Composer, Arranger, Conductor, Teacher and Music Prep.
> Please visit me at
> http://alevy.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 16:44:12 +1000
> From: "Ross Anderson" <rossanmjband at iprimus.com.au>
> To: "'Robert Ringwald'" <rsr at ringwald.com>
> Cc: 'Dixieland Jazz Mailing List' <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Ross In Melbourne
> Message-ID: <A53889B3392C4680A0B1D9C91E02A556 at RossPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear Bob and list mates,
> I am working on it !!!
> Will let you all know when it happens.
> Cheers, Ross
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dixielandjazz [mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] On
> Behalf Of Robert Ringwald
> Sent: Monday, 29 September 2014 3:54 PM
> To: rossanmjband at iprimus.com.au
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Ross In Melbourne
>
> Hey Ross,
>
> How about setting up a web Cam and broadcasting one of your sessions on the
> Internet for all of us who can't make it to Australia.
>
> -Bob Ringwald
>
>
> Bob Ringwald
> Amateur (ham) Radio Station K 6 Y B V
> Fulton Street Jazz Band
> 916/ 806-9551
>
> If God wanted me to touch my toes, he'd have put them on my knees.
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 11:23:00 +0200
> From: "Jim Kashishian" <jim at kashprod.com>
> To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] For Dave Hanson
> Message-ID: <926E82E695CA445BBD9AA1F550FB71C1 at JIM>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Dave Hanson wrote me privately:
>> I always enjoy hearing about you and your band. I'll be over there one of
> these days to hear you in person !
>
> However, I can never answer Dave as there is some sort of block on Spanish
> mail on his server! So, in answer to his mail: I hope you can come over
> sometime, Dave. Just let me know.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 15:42:09 +0200
> From: "Gerard Bielderman" <gerard.bielderman at telfort.nl>
> To: "DJM List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Passed away
> Message-ID: <491BDADEFC99476DBF5B63DECD8FA72B at GerardPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Just heard that listmate Jerry Brown passed away last Monday. He used to
> run
> the Jazz & Blues Record shop and also was involved with the Norwich Jazz
> Party.
>
> Gerard Bielderman
> Leie 18
> 8032 ZG Zwolle
> Netherlands
> Website: http://gerardsdiscos.jimdo.com/
>
> --
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 17:15:16 +0300
> From: Marek Boym <marekboym at gmail.com>
> To: Gerard Bielderman <gerard.bielderman at telfort.nl>
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Passed away
> Message-ID:
> <CABGvO8A78qbRi5uUtoHuHZAC41Du3c3kwCtqmV5rz7LVFCgh8A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Sorry to hear that!
> I shopped with him from ime to time, albeit not very often and not in a
> long time!
> Blessed be his memory
>
> On 1 October 2014 16:42, Gerard Bielderman <gerard.bielderman at telfort.nl>
> wrote:
>
>> Just heard that listmate Jerry Brown passed away last Monday. He used to
>> run
>> the Jazz & Blues Record shop and also was involved with the Norwich Jazz
>> Party.
>>
>> Gerard Bielderman
>> Leie 18
>> 8032 ZG Zwolle
>> Netherlands
>> Website: http://gerardsdiscos.jimdo.com/
>>
>> --
>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
>> SPAMfighter has removed 637 of my spam emails to date.
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>> Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan
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>>
>> Dixielandjazz mailing list
>> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 07:27:57 -0700
> From: Richard Parks <dparks999 at verizon.net>
> To: "dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] "Black and Blue" lyric
> Message-ID:
> <1412173677.20677.YahooMailNeo at web142602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
>
> I should have specified the Fats Waller tune, I guess. Who knew this site had so many folks from other musical specialties?
>
> One more time: Before I have to write my own lyric, has anyone got words a white guy can sing without getting a visit from the PC cops?
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 10:52:59 -0400
> From: Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym at teledyn.com>
> To: Richard Parks <dparks999 at verizon.net>
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] "Black and Blue" lyric
> Message-ID:
> <CAE=O9tbsvqmaqzgSWyGsG7Nf7JCJ5T0ZUtNujc_OreZR_tF7kg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> thanks to Louis Armstrong, what was a broken hearted love song has
> become a general purpose human rights anthem -- seems to me Louis
> altered the lyrics later in his career (as he did to Sleepy Time Down
> South, and some books say he altered them reluctantly). With our band
> it is easy since our likely vocalists have an ethnic history that
> wasn't always 'accepted' by the mainstream, and in some respects still
> isn't, so I tell them "channel your inner asian-ness" -- they could be
> Polish, Italian, even Irish and understand at least in principle the
> line lamenting being "white" inside. I'm not certain, but I think
> Louis may have changed that to "right" and even if he didn't, I'd
> think that could work for just about anyone to take to heart, because
> we've all had the experience of being excluded and bullied for what we
> appear to be rather than for who we are, perfectly "right inside", and
> "what is on my face" can be metaphorical.
>
>> On 10/1/14, Richard Parks <dparks999 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I should have specified the Fats Waller tune, I guess. Who knew this site
>> had so many folks from other musical specialties?
>>
>> One more time: Before I have to write my own lyric, has anyone got words a
>> white guy can sing without getting a visit from the PC cops?
>> _______________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz
>> Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>>
>> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>>
>>
>>
>> Dixielandjazz mailing list
>> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>
>
> --
> *Teledyn Addendum: teledyn blogspot ca*
> *eso: **EighthStreetOrchestra blogspot ca*
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 16:56:40 +0200
> From: "Jim Kashishian" <jim at kashprod.com>
> To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] FW: "Black and Blue" lyric
> Message-ID: <A0B73005FE744C9AA4379AB4366DA079 at JIM>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Richard wrote:
>> Before I have to write my own lyric, has anyone got words a white guy can
> sing without getting a visit from the PC cops?
>
> Dunno about PC cops, but I don't see how someone white can pull off singing
> that song. You'd have to give it a new title, also! It's such a beautiful
> tune, why not leave it as an instrumental? I don't sing it (for the above
> reasons), and most of our audiences don't even understand English! It just
> wouldn't seem right to me...
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 11:15:14 -0400
> From: Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym at teledyn.com>
> To: jim at kashprod.com
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] FW: "Black and Blue" lyric
> Message-ID:
> <CAE=O9tYdhmHBnoLVAAcTGeJiby70RgtN+XVFvKDOiXSBk4Q4Fg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> when May sings it, even the kids cry. mind you, we prefix this by
> explaining where the song came from in the musical, and then what
> Louis Armstrong did with it in Ghana, but I think even without that,
> May (who is Chinese) brings a great deal of her own hurt into it and
> that makes all the difference. (and she sings "white inside", but with
> an edge ;) )
>
>> On 10/1/14, Jim Kashishian <jim at kashprod.com> wrote:
>>
>> Richard wrote:
>>> Before I have to write my own lyric, has anyone got words a white guy can
>> sing without getting a visit from the PC cops?
>>
>> Dunno about PC cops, but I don't see how someone white can pull off singing
>> that song. You'd have to give it a new title, also! It's such a beautiful
>> tune, why not leave it as an instrumental? I don't sing it (for the above
>> reasons), and most of our audiences don't even understand English! It just
>> wouldn't seem right to me...
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz
>> Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>>
>> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>>
>>
>>
>> Dixielandjazz mailing list
>> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>
>
> --
> *Teledyn Addendum: teledyn blogspot ca*
> *eso: **EighthStreetOrchestra blogspot ca*
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 11:49:20 -0400
> From: Ric Giorgi <ricgiorgi at sympatico.ca>
> To: "'Gary Lawrence Murphy'" <garym at teledyn.com>
> Cc: 'Dixieland Jazz Mailing List' <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] FW: "Black and Blue" lyric
> Message-ID: <BLU436-SMTP12406A9C85D3852BAF07200D4B80 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> The Rainbow Gardens Jazz Orchestra used to do Black and Blue just as
> written, sung by a young Englishman who had been through a lot as a child.
> He brought that hurt into the performance and it never failed to find the
> mark with audiences. With this one, you can trust that Waller, Razaf and
> Brooks got it right as long as the performer does.
>
> Ric Giorgi
> Toronto
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dixielandjazz [mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] On
> Behalf Of Gary Lawrence Murphy
> Sent: October-01-14 11:15 AM
> To: Ric Giorgi
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] FW: "Black and Blue" lyric
>
> when May sings it, even the kids cry. mind you, we prefix this by
> explaining where the song came from in the musical, and then what Louis
> Armstrong did with it in Ghana, but I think even without that, May (who is
> Chinese) brings a great deal of her own hurt into it and that makes all the
> difference. (and she sings "white inside", but with an edge ;) )
>
>> On 10/1/14, Jim Kashishian <jim at kashprod.com> wrote:
>>
>> Richard wrote:
>>> Before I have to write my own lyric, has anyone got words a white guy
>>> can
>> sing without getting a visit from the PC cops?
>>
>> Dunno about PC cops, but I don't see how someone white can pull off
>> singing that song. You'd have to give it a new title, also! It's
>> such a beautiful tune, why not leave it as an instrumental? I don't
>> sing it (for the above reasons), and most of our audiences don't even
>> understand English! It just wouldn't seem right to me...
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland
>> Jazz Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>>
>> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>>
>>
>>
>> Dixielandjazz mailing list
>> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>
>
> --
> *Teledyn Addendum: teledyn blogspot ca*
> *eso: **EighthStreetOrchestra blogspot ca*
>
> _______________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz
> Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
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>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 09:00:18 -0700
> From: "Robert Ringwald" <rsr at ringwald.com>
> To: "DJML" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Passed away
> Message-ID: <83128F68ECBA46058339B8D4F82DC1A2 at BobPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Oh no. Another one gone.
>
> Jerry, RIP.
>
> -Bob Ringwald
>
>
>
> From: Gerard Bielderman
> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 6:42 AM
> To: Bob Ringwald
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Passed away
>
> Just heard that listmate Jerry Brown passed away last Monday. He used to
> run
> the Jazz & Blues Record shop and also was involved with the Norwich Jazz
> Party.
>
> Gerard Bielderman
> Leie 18
> 8032 ZG Zwolle
> Netherlands
> Website: http://gerardsdiscos.jimdo.com/
>
> --
> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
> SPAMfighter has removed 637 of my spam emails to date.
> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
>
> Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan
> http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>
>
>
> Dixielandjazz mailing list
> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 09:01:25 -0700
> From: "Robert Ringwald" <rsr at ringwald.com>
> To: "DJML" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] "Black and Blue" lyric
> Message-ID: <6CD22154BDEE44E88ACFF90E62CFAB0B at BobPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>
> From: Richard Parks
> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 7:27 AM
> To: Bob Ringwald
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] "Black and Blue" lyric
>
>
>
> I should have specified the Fats Waller tune, I guess. Who knew this site had so many folks from other musical specialties?
>
> One more time: Before I have to write my own lyric, has anyone got words a white guy can sing without getting a visit from the PC cops?
> _______________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>
>
>
> Dixielandjazz mailing list
> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 09:07:24 -0700
> From: "Robert Ringwald" <rsr at ringwald.com>
> To: "DJML" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] "Black and Blue" lyric
> Message-ID: <E8018E90CC8C468387FDFC0F26810D99 at BobPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Richard,
>
> I used to sing ?Black and Blue? and never thought about the meaning of the words. I just knew that it was a great song.
>
> When I lived in Los Angeles and had the Great pacific Jazz Band, we did a Louis Armstrong Tribute recording. See:
>
> www.ringwald.com/recordings.php
>
> I wanted to sing B&B on the album but the rest of the guys in the band didn?t think that I should. I don?t know why we didn?t at least record the tune without the lyrics. Never thought about it I guess.
>
>> From what I have heard, a little fact that a lot of people don?t realize is that the song was written for a black woman to sing, not a man. She is singing about being black and the black males liking white women.
>
> It was used in that famous night club in Harlem (can?t think of the name of it off hand) where Duke Ellington played for so long. They featured black entertainers and bands but only whites could go in.
>
> -Bob Ringwald
> Fulton Street Jazz Band
>
>
>
> From: Richard Parks
> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 7:27 AM
> To: Bob Ringwald
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] "Black and Blue" lyric
>
>
>
> I should have specified the Fats Waller tune, I guess. Who knew this site had so many folks from other musical specialties?
>
> One more time: Before I have to write my own lyric, has anyone got words a white guy can sing without getting a visit from the PC cops?
> _______________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>
>
>
> Dixielandjazz mailing list
> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 13:21:05 -0500
> From: Charles Suhor <csuhor at zebra.net>
> To: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] FW: "Black and Blue" lyric
> Message-ID: <1D2B5EE6-A78E-4E78-BC24-675FF322486B at zebra.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Interesting exchange. I like Gary and May's approach of explaining the background of the song, which rescues it (though not to everyone's satisfaction, I'm sure) from being seen as inappropriate, or worse, a blatant cultural misappropriation. A different matter--in many settings the audience isn't interested in (or sober enough for) a thoughtful explanation, however beneficial that might be. I never sang the song on a gig, nor do I recall it being sung in bands in New Orleans during my years as a player and listener there, roughly 1946 to 1977.
> To pose the appropriateness question more sharply, would any white musician feel comfortable singing "Strange Fruit"? It would need quite a sociological mini-lecture.
>
> Charlie
>
>> On Oct 1, 2014, at 10:15 AM, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:
>>
>> when May sings it, even the kids cry. mind you, we prefix this by
>> explaining where the song came from in the musical, and then what
>> Louis Armstrong did with it in Ghana, but I think even without that,
>> May (who is Chinese) brings a great deal of her own hurt into it and
>> that makes all the difference. (and she sings "white inside", but with
>> an edge ;) )
>>
>>> On 10/1/14, Jim Kashishian <jim at kashprod.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Richard wrote:
>>>> Before I have to write my own lyric, has anyone got words a white guy can
>>> sing without getting a visit from the PC cops?
>>>
>>> Dunno about PC cops, but I don't see how someone white can pull off singing
>>> that song. You'd have to give it a new title, also! It's such a beautiful
>>> tune, why not leave it as an instrumental? I don't sing it (for the above
>>> reasons), and most of our audiences don't even understand English! It just
>>> wouldn't seem right to me...
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> *Teledyn Addendum: teledyn blogspot ca*
>> *eso: **EighthStreetOrchestra blogspot ca*
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>
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