[Dixielandjazz] where does Dixieland end?

[Marek Boym]

Hi GAry,
I very much doubt the


On 26 January 2014 20:57, Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym at teledyn.com> wrote:

> Ok, that's maybe a misleading question ;) I don't mean to imply that
> Dixieland jazz is done and finished, just that it had this period of time
> where there was nothing but dixieland ensemble-improv and then, at some
> point, the historians all say "larger ensembles required more arrangment"
> but I'm curious, just everyone knows Livery Stable Blues as the first
> 'Jazz' recording, and certainly it sparks a revolution in ragtime and blues
> bands such that simply *everyone* is playing that jazz music by 1919,is
> there a first new-thing *post* dixieland recording?  Is there a single
> record that turned heads the same way to introduce the more orchestrated
> big-band-jazz sound that still dominates 'jazz' consciousness today?
>
> It's probably not an easy question to answer since there's not a great deal
> of distinction between, say, Jelly Roll Morton ensembles just before and
> just after 1917 although I think there is a certain quality that
> distinguishes the Memphis sound of W.C.Handy from his later, jazz-infused
> NYC sound. Jimmy Durante says he was overwhelmed by this new New Orleans
> sound, and so merged it with his own, but is that all there is to it?
> Looking at Joe Oliver, although it lacks the frenetic pace, 1923 Riverside
> Blues sounds much more raw improvised dixieland to me than 1928's West End
> Blues, which seems at best an 'orderly' dixieland, although dixieland
> nonetheless.
>
> I've been hunting back through my Fletcher Henderson recordings looking for
> a tipping point; as early as 1923 with Coleman Hawkins it doesn't really
> stand up as a 'dixieland jazz' genre, he's got a far more orchestrated,
> structured thing, but perhaps too structured to really be called jazz?
>
> Fletcher Henderson - Shake Your Feet - New York, November 27, 1923 -
> YouTube
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvvbeJCmqZU
>
> So is there any consensus on a definitive post-dixieland recording?
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