[Dixielandjazz] Dixieland Jazz Mailing List / Facebook page
Tom Coleman
optiguytom at yahoo.com
Wed Apr 16 12:22:01 PDT 2014
If we all really and truly care more about the music than who gets what credit or where you get your info....why don't both media show a link to the other? I still come back to the list, but love the FB page too. One compliments the other! If were up to me each would "advertise" the other at the top of the page in BOLD....no disclaimer required.
Tom Coleman
423-432-2080
On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 3:03 PM, "dixielandjazz-request at ml.islandnet.com" <dixielandjazz-request at ml.islandnet.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: An Open Letter RE: DJML Facebook (Marek Boym)
2. Re: An Open Letter RE: DJML Facebook (WILLIAM SALMOND)
3. Re: Art Hodes reviewed NPR 6-Minute Segment (Marek Boym)
4. Re: An Open Letter RE: DJML Facebook (Jim O'Briant)
5. Re: An Open Letter RE: DJML Facebook (Jim O'Briant)
6. Re: An Open Letter RE: DJML Facebook (M J [Mike] Logsdon)
7. An Open Letter RE: DJML Facebook (Bill Haesler)
8. Re: An Open Letter RE: DJML Facebook (Pat Ladd)
9. Re: DJML Facebook - 707 Members! (Pat Ladd)
10. Re: DJML Facebook - 707 Members! (Gary Lawrence Murphy)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 23:14:04 +0300
From: Marek Boym <marekboym at gmail.com>
To: SargentDrums at aol.com
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] An Open Letter RE: DJML Facebook
Message-ID:
<CABGvO8AFE=n0-EirsqTFx9f5uGuWjKfTxHsk0AWLvZREiYLYKQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi,
Don't you guys think it's time to end this discussion? It leads us nowhere.
As you already know, I am staying off FB, even if my letters to DJML are
open to all. So I have not come to defend the FB list.
Is there harm in it? I honestly don't know, but by now it seems rather
irrelevant - it's here to stay! I know at least one person who has joined
the FB group, without joining the email one. So?
As you should know from my messages, in my country the OKOM audience is
mixed, even if the younger people would not join a forum like the DJML.
Will the FB promote OKOM to young people? I rather doubt it, but the
regular list hasn't either.
So, rather than fight, why don't we coexist peacefully? And have more time
for music instead of polemizing about the relative virtues and drawbacks of
FB vs. regular DJML?
I rest my case, and this is the last you'll hear (read?) from me on this
matter.
Cheers,
Marek
On 15 April 2014 21:55, <SargentDrums at aol.com> wrote:
> Bob Ringwald wrote:
>
> <<But I think by the time I asked him not to use the name, he had already
> established the DJML FB page. That would have been the time to change and
> start the new page. But by that time he probably felt that it was too late.
> The horses had already left the barn?>>
>
> This is correct. I did not want to give a few hundred people the boot
> simply for the sake of a name.
>
> Besides, WE are ALL DJML. DJML is a volunteer group of PEOPLE who love and
> advocate OKOM.
>
> Nobody owns it, there are no dues, there is no governing body, and there
> are no elections.
>
> DJML now has two ways to communicate, and that is PLUS, not a negative.
> All this does is expand the purpose, the cause of the group, and the art
> form.
>
> In a family household, there are kids who use very smart phones, and some
> olds folks may still be using their flip phones or land lines to
> communicate. It is still the same family.
>
> When part of your jazz audience arrives at your concerts by cars, and
> others came by plane or bus, you do not care as to the method of arrival,
> nor
> the mode of communication. They are all your jazz audience.
>
> For years, upon years, you guys have been complaining about dwindling
> audiences and disappearing festival and the seemingly inevitable prospect
> that
> jazz "OKOM" is dying.
>
> So someone like me comes along, and finds a way to expand the reach, grow
> the audience, spread the word, give more people access . . . all while
> giving younger people an opportunity to develop interest . . . and all I
> get
> from some of you is complaints. Those younger people are never going to
> come
> here. While there may be an exception or two, this is not the way they
> comminicate.
>
> So, here is the pertinent question: it is really the music and the art form
> you care about, or is it simply yourselves?
>
> One last thing here: For those of you who think you have privacy here -
> every single email you've sent is 100% searchable and readable by anyone
> anywhere in the world on the internet. NOTHING you have posted here is
> private.
> Zip, nadda, zero, goose egg.
>
> Now, I suggest it would be a better use of your time to focus on your
> musical discussions than on whether or not what I did was or was not the
> proper
> thing to do. For everyone of you who dis what I've done, I have had
> numerous people express grateful "thank you"s (and that wasn't the reason
> why I
> did it.)
>
> Very, totally sincerely,
> Bill Sargent
> A member of the DJML Email Version since waaaay back when Peter moderated
> the list.
> _______________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz
> Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 21:25:42 +0100 (BST)
From: WILLIAM SALMOND <williamsalmond at btinternet.com>
To: "SargentDrums at aol.com" <SargentDrums at aol.com>
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] An Open Letter RE: DJML Facebook
Message-ID:
<1397593542.67676.YahooMailNeo at web87901.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Am I alone in thinking the 'Facebook' issue has had sufficient discussion and should end.
Bill Salmond.
________________________________
From: "SargentDrums at aol.com" <SargentDrums at aol.com>
To: Bill Salmond <williamsalmond at btinternet.com>
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 15 April 2014, 19:55
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] An Open Letter RE: DJML Facebook
Bob Ringwald wrote:
<<But I think by the time I asked him not to use the name, he had? already
established the DJML FB page. That would have been the time to change? and
start the new page. But by that time he probably felt that it was too late.?
The horses had already left the barn?>>
This is correct. I did not want to give a few hundred people the boot?
simply for the sake of a name.
Besides, WE are ALL DJML. DJML is a volunteer group of PEOPLE who love? and
advocate OKOM.
Nobody owns it, there are no dues, there is no governing body, and there?
are no elections.
DJML now has two ways to communicate, and that is PLUS, not a? negative.
All this does is expand the purpose, the cause of the group, and the? art form.
In a family household, there are kids who use very smart phones, and some?
olds folks may still be using their flip phones or land lines to
communicate. It? is still the same family.
When part of your jazz audience arrives at your concerts by cars, and?
others came by plane or bus, you do not care as to the method of arrival, nor?
the mode of communication. They are all your jazz audience.
For years, upon years, you guys have been complaining about dwindling?
audiences and disappearing festival and the seemingly inevitable prospect that?
jazz "OKOM" is dying.
So someone like me comes along, and finds a way to expand the reach, grow?
the audience, spread the word, give more people access . . . all while
giving? younger people an opportunity to develop interest . . . and all I get
from some? of you is complaints. Those younger people are never going to come
here. While? there may be an exception or two, this is not the way they
comminicate.
So, here is the pertinent question: it is really the music and the art form
you care about, or is it simply yourselves?
One last thing here: For those of you who think you have privacy here -?
every single email you've sent is 100% searchable and readable by anyone?
anywhere in the world on the internet. NOTHING you have posted here is private.?
Zip, nadda, zero, goose egg.
Now, I suggest it would be a better use of your time to focus on your?
musical discussions than on whether or not what I did was or was not the proper?
thing to do. For everyone of you who dis what I've done, I have had
numerous? people express grateful "thank you"s (and that wasn't the reason why I
did? it.)
Very, totally sincerely,
Bill Sargent
A member of the DJML? Email Version since waaaay back when Peter moderated
the? list.
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 23:41:23 +0300
From: Marek Boym <marekboym at gmail.com>
To: Robert Ringwald <rsr at ringwald.com>
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Art Hodes reviewed NPR 6-Minute Segment
Message-ID:
<CABGvO8C+Z30n=E_rHRyNoqoqA9uBjz0ouTnruWUgn2jqEXA9Dg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Thank you, Bob! This is interesting and the critic seems to know his
subject - a welcome deviation from the rule!
Forwardin it to a friend who is a long time Hodes devotee.
And one comment - Hodes is an impossible hame for a Russian, since the "h"
sound does not exist in that language. They call Hitler "Gitler."
However, the same letter which in Russian is "G" is an "h" in Ukrainian,
which has no "g" sound. And Hodes is from the Ukraine, which until the
revolurion was a part of the Russian empire, and thereafter became a Soviet
Republic.
Cheers
On 5 April 2014 10:30, Robert Ringwald <rsr at ringwald.com> wrote:
> The Masters at His Fingertips, Art Hodes Pays Tribute to Bessie
> Smith
> by Kevin Whitehead
> NPR's Fresh Air, September 16, 2013
> Six-minute segment:
> http://www.npr.org/2013/09/16/223043826
>
>
> -Bob Ringwald K6YBV
> www.ringwald.com
> 916/ 806-9551
> ?As I hurtled through space, one thought kept crossing my mind - every
> part of this rocket was supplied by the lowest bidder.? ~ John Glenn
> _______________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz
> Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>
>
>
> Dixielandjazz mailing list
> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 13:49:48 -0700
From: "Jim O'Briant" <jobriant at garlic.com>
To: "'Dixieland Jazz Mailing List'" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] An Open Letter RE: DJML Facebook
Message-ID: <00ba01cf58ec$3e0d5120$ba27f360$@garlic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Bill Sargent wrote, in part:
> For years, upon years, you guys have been complaining about
> dwindling audiences and disappearing festival and the seemingly
> inevitable prospect that jazz "OKOM" is dying.
>
> So someone like me comes along, and finds a way to expand the
> reach, grow the audience, spread the word, give more people access
> . . . all while giving younger people an opportunity to develop interest
> . . . and all I get from some of you is complaints. Those younger
> people are never going to come here. While there may be an
> exception or two, this is not the way they comminicate.
Bill is exactly right on this point. If you want to reach a younger audience, a text-only email list housed on a server that's stuck in the dark ages is not the way to do it.
> For those of you who think you have privacy here - every single
> email you've sent is 100% searchable and readable by anyone
> anywhere in the world on the internet. NOTHING you have posted
> here is private. Zip, nadda, zero, goose egg.
Again, Bill is exactly right. If you're concerned that "big brother" is spying on you, you'd better sell your computer, disconnect your telephone, and get rid of your credit cards and bank accounts.
Jim O'Briant
Gilroy, CA
Tuba & Leader, The Zinfandel Stompers
Now, I suggest it would be a better use of your time to focus on your musical discussions than on whether or not what I did was or was not the proper thing to do. For everyone of you who dis what I've done, I have had numerous people express grateful "thank you"s (and that wasn't the reason why I did it.)
Very, totally sincerely,
Bill Sargent
A member of the DJML Email Version since waaaay back when Peter moderated the list.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 13:55:05 -0700
From: "Jim O'Briant" <jobriant at garlic.com>
To: "'WILLIAM SALMOND'" <williamsalmond at btinternet.com>
Cc: 'Dixieland Jazz Mailing List' <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] An Open Letter RE: DJML Facebook
Message-ID: <00c701cf58ec$fb13f8f0$f13bead0$@garlic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Bill Salmond wrote:
> Am I alone in thinking the 'Facebook' issue has had sufficient
> discussion and should end.
It doesn't matter whether you're alone in this belief or not. Those who think it's worth discussing will continue to do so.
If you don't like these messages, that's what your "Delete" key is for.
Jim O'Briant
Gilroy, CA
Tuba & Leader, The Zinfandel Stompers
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 14:11:03 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: "M J [Mike] Logsdon" <mjl at ix.netcom.com>
To: DJML <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] An Open Letter RE: DJML Facebook
Message-ID:
<18815337.1397596264233.JavaMail.root at elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Thank you, Mr Sargent, for your Open Letter. Though my position isn't essentially changed, I want to apologise if I came across more negatively than I needed to. Your FB group is clearly successful, and for that alone we all should be at least a bit grateful.
If I might make a wee suggestion, though. Since there was a naming conundrum at the beginning of its existence, maybe add a small but unavoidable disclaimer that your DJML Facebook group is not in any way affiliated with the original and actual DJML, other than you and others in your group also being members of it previously? That might, might put the whole question to a positive rest.
Mike.
Sent from my cOmputer
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 08:27:12 +1000
From: Bill Haesler <bhaesler at bigpond.net.au>
To: WILLIAM SALMOND <williamsalmond at btinternet.com>, dixieland jazz
mailing list <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] An Open Letter RE: DJML Facebook
Message-ID: <761129B8-09FA-4758-B769-49560911EE01 at bigpond.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
WILLIAM SALMOND wrote:
> Am I alone in thinking the 'Facebook' issue has had sufficient discussion and should end.
Dear Bill.
No. You are not alone.
I agree with you.
There is obviously room for both an email and facebook 'DJML'.
Let's not waste any more time and space discussing it on this one.
Kind regards,
Bill.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 10:04:07 +0100
From: "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd at btinternet.com>
To: "Bill Haesler" <bhaesler at bigpond.net.au>
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] An Open Letter RE: DJML Facebook
Message-ID: <62CFF0C882B8484F85C9C04484BA8B3C at MRLaddPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi all,
re the Facebook issue.
i agree that we should draw a line under it. Those who want to go to either
list_have probably already done so and no amount of coy blandishment is
going to change that.
Pat
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 10:19:51 +0100
From: "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd at btinternet.com>
To: "Marek Boym" <marekboym at gmail.com>
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] DJML Facebook - 707 Members!
Message-ID: <D3096EA84CAD4B10A42A69C24FF9AB19 at MRLaddPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Quite as an aside from the merits or not of facebook or the REAL DJML it
does seem that you guys are really hung up on `security`.
I hope that you are not under the impression that one system is more
secure than the other. They are both equally susceptible to being read by
Big Brother, as is every other form of communication except face to face
speech.
In any case does it matter?. Are you going to be thrown in the pokey for
not liking Wonderful World, or preferring the Hot Five rather than The Hot
Seven. It is not as though you are disclosing your Pin numbers for your
Bank although on present form they are not very safe either.
Forget the security issue altogether. I learned long ago in the Army that
if you cannot influence something, don`t worry about it. If the Army wants
to post you to the Aleutians tomorrow morning and you have no pull anywhere
then you will wake up tomorrow in the Aleutians. All the worry in the world
won`t change that. Go with the flow.
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: Marek Boym
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:42 PM
To: Pat Ladd
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] DJML Facebook - 707 Members!
One man's meat, Jerry...
On 15 April 2014 20:07, Jazz Jerry <jazz1jerry at btinternet.com> wrote:
> Hi Marek,
>
> I see that you use gmail which it has been shown by the likes of Edward
> Snowden is fair game for the various security services including those
> from
> the UK, USA and many other countries. No real privacy there. Facebook only
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 08:59:13 -0400
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym at teledyn.com>
To: Pat Ladd <pj.ladd at btinternet.com>
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] DJML Facebook - 707 Members!
Message-ID:
<CAE=O9ta4=wSyJx=yk+xb51bDYU0p1b5i+SskayAd3HDYvi8sWg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I don't think it is that kind of security they're concerned about.
It's the sort that links you and your behaviours to your location and
those of your 'friends' and then shares all this with your friends and
their friends (in the loosest sense of the word) -- so for example,
you don't know who it is that now knows you have a $5000 banjo sitting
unattended at home while you're out to Mardi Gras. Such automated
behaviour mining is not really feasible via NSA petitions under
Freedom of Information requests. So that's just one scenario.
and then there's just plain annoyance security; on FB let's say you
get contacted by old highschool chums that you haven't seen in nearly
40 years, and so you say heck why not, eh? see what they're up to,
compare histories etc. So now they get hooked into your profile and
you chat a bit and slowly learn they're trouble, they're skid row or
in prison or recovering crack addicts or something, and haven't
matured a shred in 40 years and the chat frame just never quits day
and night. Ok, so it was dumb to reconnect without *really* knowing
more about them, but now they'd know where you live and could access
your regular profile and they'd know who your friends are, as will
their own friends and now what? Do you *dare* disconnect and block
them out of fear they'll panic and start harassing your other
connections or even turn up at your door? Pandora's box is already
open, you can't close it.
I don't think you get that kind of risk on a special interest mailing
list and while maybe *I* tend to be reckless about such privacy
issues, others may not be. But the risk is a real and present danger,
and notice in the above scenario, you have done nothing wrong but
misjudge an old acquaintance who used to be a bit of alright, but
there's now no way out.
So I think it is fair to say that no one here is an idiot, if people
say they have concerns about any particular forum or technology,
chances are good they have good reason and we should simply respect
that and please please let it be and move on.
On 4/16/14, Pat Ladd <pj.ladd at btinternet.com> wrote:
> Quite as an aside from the merits or not of facebook or the REAL DJML it
> does seem that you guys are really hung up on `security`.
>
> I hope that you are not under the impression that one system is more
> secure than the other. They are both equally susceptible to being read by
> Big Brother, as is every other form of communication except face to face
> speech.
> In any case does it matter?. Are you going to be thrown in the pokey for
> not liking Wonderful World, or preferring the Hot Five rather than The Hot
> Seven. It is not as though you are disclosing your Pin numbers for your
> Bank although on present form they are not very safe either.
>
> Forget the security issue altogether. I learned long ago in the Army that
> if you cannot influence something, don`t worry about it. If the Army wants
>
> to post you to the Aleutians tomorrow morning and you have no pull anywhere
>
> then you will wake up tomorrow in the Aleutians. All the worry in the world
>
> won`t change that. Go with the flow.
>
> Pat
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marek Boym
> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:42 PM
> To: Pat Ladd
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] DJML Facebook - 707 Members!
>
> One man's meat, Jerry...
>
>
> On 15 April 2014 20:07, Jazz Jerry <jazz1jerry at btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Marek,
>>
>> I see that you use gmail which it has been shown by the likes of Edward
>> Snowden is fair game for the various security services including those
>> from
>> the UK, USA and many other countries. No real privacy there. Facebook
>> only
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz
> Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>
>
>
> Dixielandjazz mailing list
> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>
--
*Teledyn Addendum: teledyn blogspot ca*
*eso: **EighthStreetOrchestra blogspot ca*
------------------------------
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