[Dixielandjazz] Likes & Dislikes in Jazz

[Marek Boym]

>
> As usual, you have just written a bunch of trash about you and me. You are
> clearly not entitled to drag musicians who you do not like into the mud by
> categorizing them, or their music. Clearly, you are not a jazz fan, but
> rather a fan of certain and very limited styles of jazz music.

That's YOUR opinion.  I beg to differ.
>
> You are entitled to your opinion, I do not argue that. What I argue is your
> ignorance of what jazz is, and your stupid viewpoints about music which you
> personally can't figure out. That plus your choice of words to describe
> individuals in a public forum.


I have not called anybody "imperious fool."  An I actually liked Zoot
Sims, in case you've missed it, except for his "cool" period.

 "I don't appreciate what Miles, Zoot or Trane plays. No one would
> argue that.
>
> Then to top it off, you drag in freedom of speech while in the next
> paragraph, you incorrectly describe my emphasis that you are entitled to
> your likes and dislikes. You are right in that it is foolish to discuss your
> ill will towards certain modern jazz musicians.

Shouldn't "modern jazz musicians" be in quotes?



> that you told me after I gave you some of links to Coltrane's  music, his
> pretty ballad ones, you said that you had already heard them and would not
> listen to more. So don't cop out saying its is anyone's fault but your own
> that you listened to music you don't apparently like. As I said, no one put
> a gun to your head, least of all me.


Different experience.  I did not grow up with jazz; actually, when I
was little, it was almost criminal to listen to that "product of
decadent capitalistic culture."  So, when it became kosher, one had to
learn.  And I did mention separating the wheat from the chaff, but you
have conveniently avoided mentioning it, because it woul not have
served your purpose.  Besides, even here in Israel, jazz was scarce
(actually, much more so than in Poland of 1953-57).  So, in order to
hear some music, one had to suffer a lot of noise.  The same was true
about the VoA - we couldn't know in advance what the daily programme
would be.  Both in Poland and in Israel of the '50's and early '60's,
"jhazz" was any American music wiht rhythm.  So I played truant to my
boarding school in order to see Elvis Presley films and find out that
he was not my cup of tea.  Learning is a lengthy and arduous process.
> But please spare us the descriptions of those modernists as trash, or
> belittle what they do. Much more intelligent people than you love what they
> do, and as a musician, I find fans like you who spout nonsense about music,
> offensive.

I find musicians who do it offensive, too.

And I would have expected this issue to have been exhausted.  It is,
as far as I am concerned.  But anyway, I was much less offensive
towards a listmate who described Frankie Newton's (and Wendell
Brunious') music as "circus music," even if I did not agree.  He is as
much entitled to his opinion as I am to mine, and you - to yours.  It
would have been a dull world if we all liked the sam.

Just for your sake, I shall (not "piously") paraphrase the late Eddie
Condon: perhaps there is room for John Coltrane's music - preferably
where I am not (only for your sake I have not put music here in
quotes).

One more point - when Coltrane played with Miles Davis, he sounded not
too bad by comparison.

Cheers
>

>
>
>
>
> On Mar 14, 2012, at 6:54 PM, Marek Boym wrote:
>
>>> And then piously quoting someone out of context to reinforce
>>> an indefensible viewpoint. Especially when the person quoted, Miles in
>>> this
>>> instance, has also been accused by the quoter as playing trash, not jazz.
>>
>>
>> I strongly object to the word "accuse."  And true, the quote applies
>> to his own playing as well.  Especially in the days he still
>> considered himself a jazz player.
>>>
>>>
>>> Critics, especially those who have no right to be critical, should learn
>>> to
>>> keep their mouths shut lest they be exposed as imperious fools.
>>
>>
>> As long as they disagree with you.  If they do, they are to be quoted
>> and defended (we've been through this before, and I'll not be dragged
>> into it again).  Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that some
>> ammendment to the American Constitution says someting avbout freedom
>> of speech.  From your writing I infer that, if indeed there is such an
>> ammendment, it only applies to people who say waht you allow them to
>> say.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>> BUT THEY
>>> ARE ENTITLED TO THEIR LIKES AND DISLIKES." (emphasis mine)
>>
>>
>> As long as they agree with you, that is.  Otherwise, they are "mperious
>> fools."
>>>
>>>
>>> IMO, it is very tiresome to keep hearing about what is jazz, what is not,
>>> what is good music, what is not, or to hear over and over again about
>>> some
>>> guy who listened to Trane for years and considered it trash.
>>>
>>> WHY THEN DID YOU LISTEN? No one put a gun to your head. Only a masochist
>>> would keep torturing oneself.
>>
>>
>> Some time ago, you actually encouraged me to do just that.  It took me
>> a while to separate the wheat  from the chaff; that included both
>> Miles and Coltrane.  Moreover, thre was the radio, and sometimes one
>> had to suffer Coltrane in order to hear some music as well.
>>>
>>>
>>> THINK.
>>
>>
>> I strongly suffest that you take your own advice.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Marek
>>>
>>>
>