[Dixielandjazz] Fw: Bruce Turner

[ROBERT R. CALDER]

I remember well Bruce's Tristano line,  COOL MUSIC, HOT AIR 

and also a very nice LP with Bruce and fellow Tristano students Bud Freeman and Bob Wilber, and a singing trombonist easily confused with T. Roy Williamsgarden 


Robert 




>________________________________
> From: Steve Voce <stevevoce at virginmedia.com>
>To: ROBERT R. CALDER <serapion at btinternet.com> 
>Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com> 
>Sent: Friday, 20 January 2012, 18:46
>Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Fw:  Bruce Turner
> 
>Humph's favourite of his own bands was the 'eight piece' which from time to time included the tenor players Tony Coe (who often sounded like paul Gonsalves), Danny Moss (a devoted Ben Webster man)
>or Jimmy Skidmore. Bruce Turner studied in New York with Lennie Tristano.
>
>Steve Voce
>
>On 20/01/2012 17:59, ROBERT R. CALDER wrote:
>
>> I meant to send the following on-list, but it went off-list
>> I started vt responding to Marek's doubts regarding the relation between Tony Coe's playing and that of Willie Smith
>>
>>> Coe on alto was a Willie Smith man, according to Humph.
>> Danny Moss cited Coe's support for the campaign against the endless train of sub-et-post-Traneisms replicated by people who might otherwise have been creative tenor saxophonists. Fortunately my machine worked well on the Tony Coe-Pepper Adams broadcast and the Tony Coe-Al Grey gig of years ago I remember well. 
>>
>> What TC plays depends on context, et cetera, but alas I have not heard that much of his alto playing. Tenor obviously, and the brown clarinet
>>
>> and of course Danny Moss was quite explicit about the range of music Coe performs, in clarifying that it was no mere conservatism which underlay musical opposition to subColtraning,
>>
>> But the big thing is where the musician starts, and there have been tenor exercise rather like track athletic events in which there was no disqualification, which is to say start which is actually false start followed by return to start which is actually false start which ...
>> and no Miles Davis present to say, "take the horn out your mouth...."
>> Bruce as I recall said that when he listened to the music he was playing when he was trying to follow more "modern" teachers, he could hear only somebody else.
>>> In truth there were few I would rather hear than Bruce,
>> AND THIS WAS MAREK'S RESPONSE, WHICH I'VE TRIED TO KEEP IN CONTEXT
>>
>>
>> Marek responded agreeing to the last (he concluded referring to another object of our mutual admiration, but I shall not advertise the brewer or the brew again.
>>
>>
>> Marek asked "What can I do - I listen witn my onw ears, not yours!  Nor Danny Moss', either.
>>> And I am probably much more conservative with regards to music (and art in general)?"
>> I should say that there have been times when Tony Coe's playing did not enchant me
>>
>> .
>> Marek "first came across Tony Coe in the Humph context, and later ...." heard him in Nice with Kenny
>>> Davern and others, and was both times bored though he liked Coe's 'Bali'hai'
>>  
>> Marek cannot say that he I heard any MUSIC from John Coltrane, except maybe as a young sideman.
>>
>> I don't want to talk about Coltrane -- but Danny's point was really to do with young men assuming that  this was all there is to jazz, and parroting 
>>
>> Marek has not been excited by either Pepper Adams, or indeed Bud Shank --
>> Shank certainly sounded magnificent on the alto around the time he was slagging the flute.
>>
>> I liked Pepper. He rather took to me when I buttonholed a barman and said that since all the other customers were in the building to hear that little guy at the end of the queue it would be an idea to serve him first. Together they rather gravitated toward what they had in common with Coleman Hawkins.
>> Marek can "imagine TC sounding pretty good with Al Grey," but of course can't be sure.
>> and he recalls Humph "in London in 1964
>>
>> "with two anaemic saxophone players, whose names I didn't get.  What a disappointment!  Humph sounded Humph, but the rest!  And I expected the band I considered one of the best ever (and have not changed my mind in all rhose years; when I have doubts, I play the EP Humph's Blues, and my opinion is always reinforced)."
>>
>> I won't include Marek's concise comments on Miles Davis, other than to say that I was quoting the famous tale of how when asked why he took such long solos Coltrane said he didn't know how to finish
>>
>> Davis said, "take the horn out your mouth" and could even have been speaking for Marek, though considerably later in the performance.
>>
>> Probably I disagree with Marek a little less than he supposes, I hope I have summarised his replies accurately. 1964 was a little early for me, and the gap in my knowledge of Humph recordings pretty well coincides with Bruce's absence from the band. A matter pretty well of chance.
>>
>> all the best,
>>
>> Robert
>>
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