[Dixielandjazz] viva la difference ( re Mildred Bailey - Spokesman Review)

[Shaw, Tim]

PPS (sorry to drag on about this) - to pursue Bob's line of reasoning, if you'd rather hear reliable top-class, organised playing to being surprised, as amiddle class white male in the 20s, you would have preferred Whiteman to Goldkette. Time would have proved you "wrong" I think.
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From: dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com [dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] On Behalf Of Shaw, Tim [Tim.Shaw at mh.org.au]
Sent: 25 April 2012 10:26
To: Shaw, Tim
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] viva la difference ( re Mildred Bailey     -       Spokesman Review)

Bob, that's not what I meant by "too good"/  I'd rather hear top class musicians, and usually not in an organised environment than just jamming.
I meant something to do with what Whitney Bailliett called "the sound of surprise".  Ella doesn't surprise much - she's always fantastic.

I'm a clarinettist. I find Johnny Dodds more satisfying listening than Jimmie Noone;  Pee Wee Russell's seeming incompetence more interesting than (for example) Ken Peplowski; Lester playing clarinet more interesting than Bigard. (and Lester playing tenor more interesting than Paul Quinichette, who's technically "better", but otherwise almost indistinguishable.
 The late Kenny Davern, a fabulous musician could do Noone- (and Doods, and Russel) -like things with his own original twist, was perfect in the Ella sense - but even he didn't produce many surprises because the others had done it first.
cheers! (waiting for the flames)
tim

PS - and I 'd rather hear early Benny than late Benny any day, even though late Benny was a far better musician in most senses.
If you don't understand what I'm on about, but know classical music - try listening to Benny Goodman's recording of the Copeland clarinet concerto with the dozens of others by technically superior players.  The Goodman recording has a difficult-to-define uniqueness that the others lack (Goodman commissioned the concerto)
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From: dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com [dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] On Behalf Of Robert Ringwald [rsr at ringwald.com]
Sent: 25 April 2012 09:13
To: Shaw, Tim
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] viva la difference ( re Mildred Bailey -   Spokesman Review)

    Tim Shaw wrote regarding Ella:
I agree with Bob - there are few really great Jazz vocalists (and more female than male greats)
My favourite is Billie - but mainly on the basis of her 30s Teddy Wilson recordings. She had Lester and the cream of the NY musos as backing.
Later, she sounded like a parody of hersels (as did Lester)
I find Ella *too* technically perfect.
(snip)
When someone makes a statement such as that, it always amazes me. Like, “Someone is too good!”
Someone may prefer a certain singer to another. But to say that a singer, or a musician is too perfect...
On a recent Jazz festival, I won’t say where to protect the innocent, one of the really good musicians in a really top band was told by a listener that he’d rather hear the “jammers” then the recording quality band.” In other words, he’d rather hear bad starts, out of tune playing, bad notes, poor solos, musicians playing who don’t know their part in an ensemble, and terrible endings..
No wonder the music business has gone to hell. Most people have no idea what good music is.
--Bob Ringwald

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