[Dixielandjazz] Trad Jazz

[John Petters]

On 16/01/2011 09:28, Marek Boym wrote:
>> Oh dear, Marek!
>> What are you not hearing in the Colyer band with Bowden, Duncan&  Wheeler?
>
> Soul?  Free wheeling?  It's difficult to put one's finger on it.  The
> band just sounds as if it were holding back rather than letting itself
> go.

I'm puzzled by this Marek.
I'm listening to this band with Geo. Lewis playing 'Weary Blues'. 
Despite doubling in tempo in the first chorus (it was too slow to start 
with) the band, driven by Colin, steams

>> This was the closet British musicians got to NO Jazz at the time. Much of
>> the success was due to Colin Bowden's powerful Baby Dodds influenced
>> drumming.
>
> A wonderful drummer, Colin Bowden, but he has devekoped since then.
> Or perhaps the band was trying to sound "New Orleans" so hard as to be
> afraid to take freedoms and make mistakes.  Something that often
> happens to bands playing tribute to Ellington.

We must be listening to different recordings. These are not perfect 
recordings by any means, but with a great spirit. The Barber band sounds 
like a dance band with a banjo in comparison.

>> As for the line up with Chris Barber, this to me has always sounded like
>> jazz with the jazz taken out. It rhythmically goes nowhere.
>
> A matter of opinion.  But the first recordings with Colyer sound good to me.

I got into a spat on the Radio 3 message board following Chris' Jazz 
Library programme last year where said something along the lines that 
this was his favourite rhythm section. I can't remember the quote. 
Someone said that they thought he got close to the New Orleans feel. I 
disagreed. It is not only Chris - most of what we knew as British Trad 
was appallingly far of the mark rhythmically. Listen to any recording 
with Baby Dodds, Zutty, or Black Happy Goldston and then listen to a 
Barber record. The difference will leap out at you. Colyer and Bilk on 
the other got much closer. It wasn't the same - but closer.
There is a very good video of the Barber band on YouTube swinging - but 
Colin is on drums.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHUoShDkgbg&feature=related

Compare that to the Barber band in '62 as was:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_2eFnjwD0Q


>> British trad spawned Euro Trad which was one more step removed from the
>> source.

> Is it wrong to be "removed from the source?"  I don't think so.
> Actually, I am quite happy to hear musicians whose influences include
> Barber, Colyer, etc.  Unless you want to copy, you must go your own
> way.  And I do not mean going avant garde.
>


In my view, yes - if you are trying to create the feel of the music - 
but that is subjective. Every body copies to a certain extent - but 
surely it is better to copy a Bechet or an Armstrong than a Colyer or a 
Barber!


-- 
John Petters
www.traditional-jazz.com
Amateur Radio Station G3YPZ